Disciplining stroppy 3-yr-old - do you go easier when they're awful cos they're clearly tired?

[butterflyrabbit]

My ds is a typical 'threenager' - 3.5 year old, smart and articulate but flies off the handle when he can't control his anger/ feeling 'wronged'. He can be an angel but for a while his thing has been throwing stuff when cross.
We always take the thing thrown off him ( e.g. If it's a toy or book) and/or put him in a 'time out' especially if it's food or a plate etc. We try and be consistent so he knows throwing always has a consequence. Today he was clearly really tired and at tea time I asked him not to wipe his hands on his t-shirt, he did it again so i said he couldn't have that pudding again so he chucked his whole plate on the floor (extreme even for him)
As he's so tired his punishment just escalated everything and he didn't calm down for ages, just continued in a tit-for-tat cycle where he threw something else so we take it away, he gets angry about that so throws sthing else... It would be easier for everyone if we just let it go but it's also really important to not let him get away with it!
What do you all suggest when the child is so tired they can't really do things rationally? Worth the time going over it, explaining why you cant throw and that it didn't get you want you want, or be a bit more lax because he's only getting more tired and wound up?

I'm an amateur at this parenting lark... Age three has been really trying!

Personally I think any sort of punishment/reward expecting them to control their emotions is just too hard when they are tired.
I tend to just say ‘that was naughty/you don’t do that’ etc then rush (battle) through getting them to bed quick

It’s bloody hard tho!

I like the idea of regulate-relate-rationalise. That is, there is no point trying to rationalise with someone when there body is all over the place, so calm down first, then relate/empathise/give hugs and then talk things through. The attempts to rationalise will be ineffective if not done first two- so you aren’t teaching him not to throw/consequences at that time because he isn’t in a place where he is able to learn. So no point in doing it for the sake of it when it’s hard work for you all.

Yeah - and I'm properly strict. "Hardcore", according to some. But even I cut them some slack when they're knackered.

I have to say that wiping hands on T-shirt is simply normal behaviour for a 3 year old. I would say you should pick your battles - and this one anin't worth the candle.

Im in no way rational when Im tired.

I would have a quick chat about it the next morning.

His teatime is like your midnight.

Early tea, early bed.

Good idea on the calming down first. It does just descend into a mad toddler-brain argument otherwise.

He wipes his hands on his t-shirt all the time, it was very deliberate that he did it straight after I asked him not too because he was eating a particularly messy pudding! So the initial wiping just got a casual 'can you not do that' Then more cross when he did it deliberately, then he coldly chucked his whole plate! If I could predict what minor slight would set him off it'd be a bit easier but it can be anything including us not doing something he was thinking of in his head!

Sounds similar to my son of a similar age.

If he enters a meltdown when he's overtired, I tell him what he has done has made me sad/angry, and I tell him he's tired and needs to go to bed.

Then I begin trying to calm him, normally a hug, we go upstairs get some PJ's out, I don't concentrate really on his continuing anger and tired temper tantrum we just work through bed time.

I then lay in the bed with him and ask him gently to calm down now and we will have a bed time story, once he is calm I read to him and we have a cuddle and he drops off to sleep pretty sharpish.

I suppose I just realised he's tired and put him to bed in a nutshell, but with a calm and loving approach rather than a discipline approach because I know his behaviour is being driven by tiredness more than spite or a want to be naughty.

They have such big emotions in such little bodies at these developmental ages and you have to give hem a little space to learn how to deal with them, so in this scenario grumpy and overtired is a sign to go get some rest.

No point starting a battle that you are going to lose anyway! They have very little impulse control at that age and even less when tired.
If mine are naughty-tired I try to keep things simple and easy for everyone and expedite bedtime. Lots of cuddles / distraction / removal instead of "discipline". When tired they might as well be a 2 yo.
New day, new start tomorrow :)

Not getting pudding for wiping hands on a t-shirt seems OTT for a 3 year old who isn't really tired.
I'd certainly lay off when he's tired and also think about more positive parenting methods.
It is a really tough age though.

It wasn’t the wiping it was the fact he deliberately disobeyed her

Why don’t you give him a damn cloth to wipe his hands on when he eats his meal? Solves the tshirt issue.