We try to be good parents, but I think we have created needy, selfish, spoilt brats.....

[NormaSnorks]

DH & I changed our careers/ lifestyles a few years back so we could be at home more (work mostly from home now) and spend more time with our children.

We genuinely believed that the children would benefit from having both parents around some of the time, and it would be good to be able to do stuff with them after school etc etc rather than get a nanny/ use after school clubs etc.

But now I'm beginning to think that they just take us completely for granted and in fact we're creating spolit brats .

They are 7 and 5, and seem to be constantly fighting, wingeing and complaining.
It's all just a build up of little stuff, but for example things like:

• DS2 shouting "when IS tea going to be ready" at me
• constantly leaving toys/ clothes etc all over the place despite repeated requests to tidy up and sanctions if they don't.
• DS1 toady complaining that DH & I don't come downstairs as soon as they get up (at 6.30) as they "want us there" (they are perfectly cabable of getting their own milk/ breakfast etc).
• complaining/ wingeing about evey last little thing that they don't like - bringing the 'wrong car' to pick them up/ not making the 'right food' , whatever....
• constantly going on about all the toys they want/ haven't got compared to their friends

Just writing it down makes them sound like complete brats I know, and I don't think it's quite THAT bad, but I do feel like I want to send to boot camp to make them realise how lucky they actually are.

Problem is I feel that we are where we are, and I have no idea how to begin a new tougher regime??

i find that DD1 3.9 yo models me and how i talk to DP.... If you and DH are presenting a completely united and harmonious front then maybe kids that age are just brats?
[sigh]

Normasnorks ~ please don't take this the wrong way but it sounds as though your children have zero respect for you.
I would refuse point blank to do anything for them unless they spoke to me with respect.
You need to let them know you are the adult and they are the children. Get back in control iykwim
Give your children choices and consequences but you have to be consistent.
Good luck You obviously love and care for your children very much and I am sure they are also very lovely. Just sounds like they are taking advantage of your kind nature iykwim.

I do know where you are coming from but if it is any consolation, my children are much the same age as yours and have been pushing the boundaries a bit when it comes to this sort of behaviour too.

I think you need to have a chat with them. You are the boss here - they need to understand that they are not in control of you.

Start with what their treats are - do they get sweets, time on the computer? Whatever it is, start telling them it will be rationed unless you see an improvement in their behaviour.

As it all sounds quite new to them, for the first week or so, you'll probably have to correct them a fair bit.

So you want -
PJs under their pillow every morning
Them to tidy up after breakfast
Pleases and thankyous
Lots of positive talk
Any complaints/whinges do not get heard - you are deaf to that tone of voice (v important!)

Also, do they do anything after school? I'm not saying they need something every night but something like swimming or gym might get rid of some of their energy.

Message withdrawn

Normasnorks, I think they are at a really good age to start taking a lot of responsibility for themselves, and sharing in the tasks around the house.

I would suggest sitting down all together - or going out to a nice cafe - and having a 'house meeting'. Discuss together the kind of jobs that need doing in a household, and the difference between a hotel and a home, and between a parent and a maid/servant.

My boys always respond better to praise and reward than threats. So if they are getting a bit sloppy I put up a chart with some expectations on - for instance this week we've got

• Staying in bed til 7 am
• Sorting out laundry properly without prompting
• Clearing the table without being reminded etc. etc.

We have very clear expectations of them, that they help around the house. They have miriad responsibilities, but they also do a 'job' after tea every day, Before they get to watch 30 mins TV.

At 5 they were certainly both clearing the table, loading and emptying the dishwasher, sorting their own laundry, and tidying up their toys/rooms (with help).

Some of the stuff you mention (being reluctant to tidy up, creating lots of mess) I think sounds pretty normal (frustrating, but normal!) for young children. Other stuff sounds a bit bratty (in all honesty....I don't think its acceptable that they talk to you with such disrespect). How are you and your DH on the discipline front? Do you have clear boundaries/consequences for bad behaviour/rudeness etc? Are you agreed and do you present a united front? They are still young enough to start learning about respect for others, consequences to their actions, earning things through good behaviour, thinking of others not just themselves etc. I think the key is you and your DH sitting down and thrashing out between you what the bottom line is on all the issues that upset you - then work out whats acceptable, whats not and how you are going to deal with good and bad behaviour (praising as well as punishing and all that!). I think its important to remember at this young age your children aren't going to behave perfectly all the time - but you certainly can expect a little more coperation and respect.

I think they just need to complain and moan about something. If you weren't at home, they'd be moaning about that instead. I always want to send DD to a developing country for 2 weeks when she complains about not liking her food and refuses to eat it. Maybe someone should set up an exchange program.

I think you also need to be very clear on the issue of respect and how they speak to you as parents and adults. I would start a new tougher regime very clearly, and pull them up everytime they speak to you rudely or lacking respect: and have a long talk with them about how it makes you feel when they speak to you in that way.

Again, with my boys they would respond better to a positive system, rather than a negative one. So if they are regularly being really rude, I would set up a chart with each hour that you are all home together, and they get a tick or a star for every hour they complete without being rude or disrespectful to you.

You could just keep a tally of how many times they are rude to you, and rack up the punishments, and that works for some children (but not mine).

On the respect front, we initially tried to not talk down to DD & DS as we hated that as kids. We didn't want to keep playing the 'because we're your parents' card. I got annoyed once as DD told FIL off for talking with food in his mouth (which he does all the bloody time and it's disgusting) and SHE got told off for being cheeky. Then I had a lecture off MIL & FIL for not teaching DD to respect her elders.

But after a couple of run-ins with some kids at the high school next to DD's primary school, I realised that we're not bringing kids up with respect anymore and now frequently play the 'because we're your parents' card.

Hmm - thanks for your comments - some interesting stuff here.

I think maybe the fact that DH & I share the parenting is part of the problem. I like to think I try to do the 'praise' rather than condemn thing, and I've tried various of the techniques from the 'How to talk so your kids will etc ' book, with some success. The problem is that DH's style is much more angry/ shouting and he gets wound up, shouts at them and then it all escalates and everyone ends up in tears.

BUT although I think I know his style isn't helping matters, he's completely stubborn and won't accept that he may have anything to do with it.

Frascati - I know why you would think that they don't have respect for us, having re-read my post, but I honestly don't think it's as bad as it comes across. And we do withold priviledges and have time out and 'I will not have you speak to me like that' conversations, but DS1 in particular seems to be going through a particularly sulky phase and keeps storming off to his room. It doesn't feel like anything is working!

Useful to hear about your list of chores though Roisin - those are exactly the sorts of things I would expect by now, but I'm beginning to realise it's going to take more time to get there than I'd bargained for!

FWIW I did the praise not condemn thing with DD for 4 years and had terrible problems with her. So in desperation we switched to the old fashioned method of expecting her to behave well and punishing the bad behaviour. For some reason this really worked with her and her behaviour has been much much better over the last year.

We used to have a good girl cupboard with small rewards in that she could choose from if we were praising some rare good behaviour. Once we'd got rid of it, after she did something good she asked if she could have something from the good girl cupboard and we told her it had gone because we expect her to behave well all the time. She just said 'oh' and we realised she'd been working the system and us for years.

Should mention that we still point out when we're pleased with certain behaviour etc. She just doesn't get rewards anymore as it's how she should be behaving anyway.