Breast feeding experts plz....

[Flower08]

Hi

My baby girl is 4 days old I had her delivered c section and started breast feeding straight away!!

Milk came in properly yesterday,

When feeding her I’m trying to put as much of my Areola and nipple in as much as her little mouth could possibly take.
I’m not in pain so she’s not just latched on to the nipple, and she does have milk most of the time around her lips when breast feeding.

Me and my partner have been topping her up at night time with ready made Cow and gate. I’m wanting to try just keep her on the breast now as changing her to formula has upset her little tummy :(

I’ve acquired today a tommee tippee electric pump and tried expressing. It is second hand ( I know who from ) and i have steralised it before using before anyone may judge :) well..:: nothing has expressed :( I’ve changed the battery’s as wasn’t very strong and it’s still expressing nothing. Now I’m able to draw milk by using only my hands so something is there, I have just contacted to community feeding team and left a msg for some advise. But kind of thinking I’m not giving her enough.

Would she tell me I wasn’t when suckling ? Would she cry or pull away or just carry on suckling?

She tends to suckle fast, slow down, and gradually falls asleep which then can lead her waking up 15 mins later for another feed or a hour.

I’d love to hear some advise from experience as I’m a complete novice and she is my first baby.

Thank you

Hopefully someone with more experience will come along but mine fed frequently and fell asleep whilst feeding (still does). Newborns feed a lot to build supply up and their tummies are very small, as the get older they feed less. They often cluster feed or just continually feed in the evening. If you're getting lots of weight nappies and weight gain there's probably no need to top up unless you want to mix feed.
I never got much from expressing, babies are much better at getting milk than pumps.

Pumping isn't the same as feeding, when pumping i found it helped to either be feeding the baby with the other breast or looking at photos and videos of the baby if she wasn't with me.

You don't mention her weight, how is her weight plotting? wet and dirty nappies?

Why are you topping up with formula? she is only 4 days old?

And mine would also fall asleep at the breast.

I had a HV that got me and the baby in tears insisting i needed to keep her awake to feed for 20 minutes at least - doesn't happen

what helped me was going to a breasfeeding support group. do you have one local to you?

And congratulations of your baby - mine were also both C-Sections and ended up feeding 3 year each...

Lots of women who breastfeed successfully can't pump milk. If you can hand express milk, and your baby seems satisfied after feeding and is producing wet and dirty nappies, then she is getting enough milk. If she's only 4 days old you will see the midwife soon I presume? They will be able to watch you feed and give you support. Hope the community team get back to you soon. 😊

I'm not sure why there's any need for either formula or pumping? If she's feeding well at the breast just keep her on the breast and monitor her nappies. If you are getting 6 wet nappies and 2 dirty ones a day at least the size of a £2 coin that is what you are looking for.

If nappies are fine I wouldn't worry about baby falling asleep on breast if she is alert when awake, latching well and you can hear or see her swallowing. It's normal and natural for babies to fall asleep while bf. The worry is if their blood sugar starts dropping because they aren't extracting milk, which makes them weak and sleepy. But if nappies are fine baby is feeding.

Not gettinggrg any milk while pumping does not mean she's not getting any when sucking. She's stronger than a pump, and your body will react to her latch differently.

To check, you should listen to her on the breast - you should be able to hear the suck-suck-swallow pattern. It might be a bit painful / tingly at the start of the feed (the let down), then stop after about 10 sec. Wet nappies, weight gain and milk around the mouth are all good signs.

You could get someone from a local BF support group to look at you feeding and tell you if they think the latch is good and if they can hear swallowing. At 4 days I wouls try the BF only, keep an eye on the nappies and weight, keep talking to the HV and the BF support team, and see how it goes.

It sounds like you are doinng wonderfully already - milk coming in, no pain, baby latching on... Good luck going forward!!!!

www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.unicef.org.uk/babyfriendly/baby-friendly-resources/breastfeeding-resources/positioning-and-attachment-video/amp/

If your baby is latching well, you aren’t sore and it taking at least 8-12 feeds in 24 hours, it is very unlikely that you would need to express or top up. How long does she actually feed at the breast for each time she feeds? If you find she’s waking up again shortly after every feed, I would change her nappy when she falls asleep, wake her up and offer the other side. If it’s just been over a couple of nights that she has fed very frequently, it’s likely just cluster feeding, which is normal.

What colour are her poos? How many wees is she doing?

Congratulations. Well done for feeding straight away. I think that's one of the best ways to establish feeding well.

As pp said, why top up with formula though?

Pumping is not the same as feeding, and is a lot harder in my experience. Takes a lot of practice, and it's early days. I would concentrate on feeding for now to boost your supply. Offer it as much as you can.
Try pumping again in a couple of weeks. I could only ever manage it while baby was feeding on one side and pumping the other.

Can I ask why you think your milk isn't enough?

As long as she's gaining weight and having plenty of dirty nappies, you're doing well.

It's possibly a bit early for expressing? You're still establishing supply and the best way to do that by far, is to breastfeed.

Keep up the good work! 😎

If she's feeding well you should see her little ears wiggle.

Also make sure you're drinking plenty of fluids.

Echoing what everyone else has said - if she’s having wet and dirty nappies and she hasn’t dipped too far below her birth weight, there’s no need to be topping her up with formula or expressed milk. When she’s breastfeeding can you hear her swallowing? Also look to see her jaw and ear twitching which will show she’s swallowing.

What you can pump is no indication of what you are producing, so don’t worry about that. Sometimes it takes a while to get the knack of pumping so stick with it (if that’s what you want to do) but don’t panic if you don’t get much.

One thing I will say (from experience) is be careful of pumping this early on. Your milk supply will take a few weeks to settle at the right level and pumping might mess with that. I started very early with DS1 and ended up with painful engorged breasts, over supply and blocked ducts. With DS2 I purposefully waited until he was a month old.

Keep going - it sounds like you are doing a great job. Breastfeeding is hard but it does suddenly ‘click’ and get a lot easier.

Her tummy is TINY at 4 days - I think I remember it's about a plum size??? So frequent, short feeds are completely normal.

Expressing is NOT the same as sucking - for me it was the magic let down moment sometimes never happened so yes looking at photos / my actual baby would help that

But at 4 days, you shouldn't express or top up as this is a really important stage in setting up your milk supply for the next couple of months.

TV / snacks/ phone (& charger!) / huge glass of water and just feed, feed, feed!

A big bowl of porridge in the morning helped me kick start the day (oats supposed to encourage milk production) and make sure you drink loads and loads of water.

Relax

Your baby will tell you when she wants milk, so every time she murmurs, settle in and feed. Tickling her feet can help keep them awake during feeds but it could just be that she's filled her tiny tummy for now.

You sound like you are doing a great job.

Please don't panic about what you can or can't express - I successfully ebfd my ds from birth, perfect weight gain etc but couldn't express more than 3oz over a whole day. Babies are a lot more efficient on the breast than a pump! I'm still breast feeding him now at 2.9y... Also, at 4 days, as long as your baby is producing wet/solid nappies and weight gain (nd initial loss) is in line wirh expectation, there's no need to pump. Your baby is the best thing for your milk supply, let them feed as little and often as they like. Congrats and good luck

Sounds like breastfeeding is going well :) babies are far more efficient than pumps so I really wouldn't assume anything from the fact you can't pump any milk at the moment - I went for a weekend away when my daughter was 11 months and my boobs were so engorged and painful yet I still couldn't get anything out with the pump.

I know you said you've decided to stop the formula, but please do! It can really interfere with your supply, especially this early on, and it doesn't sound like she needs topping up at all.

I assume you want to give a bottle so you can have a break? I'd really avoid expressing at this stage though, it's not recommended until 6 weeks or so I think it is. You can cause over supply and blocked ducts which is painful and can lead to mastitis. I did pump from about a week (my nipples were cracking and bleeding and I literally could bear to feed, so it was pump or stop breastfeeding altogether). I got a blocked duct which didn't shift for about 2 weeks, fortunately didn't get infected though.

With regard to waking up quite soon wanting another feed, they can sometimes get sleepy feeding so they drop off before they've had enough. I used to feed from one side, change her nappy to wake her up, then feed from the other side. She'd generally go down a bit longer at night that way.

My initial response is also to question why you need to top her up with formula and why you need to express?
Just keep breastfeeding her. All the time. The more time she spends on the breast, the more milk you will produce.

Thanks for the replies

The reason I’ve topped up is to give myself a break I didn’t have a very good c section recovery and was suffering from severe trapped wind that moving about was excruciating so baby’s dad formula fed to give me some rest,

We have plenty of poopy nappies which are like black tar, going green but could be formula ? I do have wet nappies but tbh not that many I’d say 1-2 a day unless she is also peeing whilst poo in her nappie but I haven’t checked as don’t want to stick my fingers in.

I’ve just had her on the breast again, for 10 mins she’s now pulled away and fallen back to sleep. I’m all new to this and wondering if it is normal to wake up every 30 mins for a feed and then sometimes 3 hours

Yes that's normal! Feed on demand.
Have you got a comfortable feeding chair at home and a pillow?
I recommend the Ikea rocking chair.

I’d expect her to be having as many wees as she is days old (if she was born on Friday and we count that as day 0, that would make her day 3) in a 24 hour period. And her poo should be in the process of changing from meconium (the black poo) to a greeny colour and then be yellow by about day 5.

The problem with giving formula for some feeds is that your breasts need the regular stimulation to know how much milk to produce for your baby. And if you’re expressing as frequently as you would be feeding m you might as well be breast feeding if she’ll latch. Your job at this stage really should be to feed and sleep, everything else can be done for you.

I exclusively fed two giant babies and couldn’t express an ounce. It is absolutely no reflection on supply whatsoever. What is the reason for the top ups? Sounds like she’s feeding at the breast really well so I’d just crack on with that and drop the bottle completely for now.

Sorry should caveat that with crack on with bf without the bottle provided her nappy output is sufficient and weight causes no concern.

I think you are complicating matters. Feed your daughter as often and for as long as she wants . I would think that as long as she is feeding at least 3 hourly ( probably more often) and is having dirty and wet nappies you are on track.
If you want to pump as well , it needs to be 'as well as '

For you to have s break, could your DH just bring her up to you in bed when she needs feeding and then take her away again?

Sorry , posted too soon, but pumping at this stage ( even if it works) is extra work ( and less rest) for you so it will be counterproductive.

If you're not sure whether a nappy is wet, try pouring a small amount onto a clean dry nappy and seeing how it changes and how much it weighs in your hand.

Do you offer both sides at a feed?