A question for MUSLIM parents from a NON MUSLIM.

[drosophila]

DS goes to a school with a large number of Muslims (probably the majority religion) and his best friend is a Muslim. They are 7. Recently he told me that his friend told him that his Dad said that he could only have other Muslim kids to play and he could only go to the houses of other Muslim kids. I get the impression that they are fairly strict traditional Muslims.

My question is what should I say to my son when he asks me to explain it to him bearing in mind he is hurt. We are not religious and DP went into a long talk about religion and I think a lot of it went over his head. Also how common would you say this? My suspicion is that his Dad is very strict as he also said to his son he could have friends who were clever. DS fulfills this requirement [smile}

Ah, I see, drosophila. While I'm strongly in favour of my children choosing their own friends, I've had to face the fact that other parents take a different approach. It's not just Muslims or recent immigrants that try to restrict their children's friendships to families like their own. I've never had any problems with Muslims or recent immigrants, but I have had a number of "nice" middle class parents asking me funny questions designed to elicit information on my social status, which I have found rather intrusive. I think I might have preferred "x can't come because you're a bunch of infidels."

CoteD'Azur has already mentioned the possibility that the family might be genuinely scared of outside influences, having heard bad stories about us. It is also possible that they might be trying to cover up language or mental health problems. I once invited a friend of DS2's only to be told by the mother "He can't go to your house because anything might happen there". I was quite offended by that until I found out that she had serious mental health problems.

I grew up in Birmingham and in my experience, Muslims, Sikhs and Hindus prefer to keep themselves to themselves. This stuff about Muslims living in fear because of their religion is garbage because they are just as racist/bigotted as other groups. Also, in my experience, Asian parents have a pecking order of who is acceptable for their kids and blacks come bottom of the list. When I was at college, fights use to break out between Muslims and Hindus, Muslims and Sikhs and Sikh and Muslims. They all hated each other, especially when it comes ot Kashmir.

When I was at primary school, one of my good friends was a Hindu but when her parents came to pick her up, she would not speak to me because I was black!

Agree Speedymama, I noticed this when my SIL came to stay from Bangladesh. Very shocking remarks sometimes when passing handicapped people - referring to them as mad or crazy - that was on a university campus too. I had to pointout to her and the kids that these 'mad' people were studying law. Also always commented on black students as if she couldn't believe they were even at university.

I agree - DH has a friend whose family are from Bangladesh and I've found some of his comments about white English people (of which I am one) pretty annoying at times and have had to bite my tongue! I often find that people from ethnic minorites can be less aceepting and then moan about integration!!! I'm a convert to Islam and I just love meeting people from other religions and backgrounds - makes life a richer and more rewarding experience!

I had to hide in a rabbit hutch once as a child because I went round to play with a Jehovah's Witness child and her dad came home unexpectedly early and she told me only then she wasn't allowed to play with children outside her religion

I grew up in Stoke on Trent and had a rather different experience from Speedymama's

In the extremely deprived and very ethnically diverse town we lived in while I was at primary school, families mixed and made friendships across racial and cultural boundaries fairly easily. Most of my friends there were Muslim or Sikh. I remember going to birthday parties/playdates and being treated with total consideration and courtesy by families of other races. As far as I could see, multiculturalism was alive and well in the schools/parks/community centres of that area of the Midlands. If there was any bad feeling at all it originated in the general poverty and depression of that area of the country, which affected everybody. There were outbreaks of violent racism (Paki-bashing etc), usually involving gangs of young men, but they also targeted the elderly/wealthier people/other gangs of young men, just as much as any ethnic group. IMO violence like this is a consequence of financial and social dispossession - its causes and its only chances of resolution are political, not racial.

But it's much easier to say "multiculturalism doesn't work because these people like to keep themselves to themselves, and anyway they are just as bad as we are".

Dros woulod back up the recommendation for the Usborne book, DS1 has it and is fascinated by it. He ahs an intrest in Hinduism actually (loves all the stories / art) but as they only teach Christianity in his school (and Judaism but really just Moses etc) then I think its really important.

And whoever it was with the Brethren- we grew up in a town with lots of Brethren, we ahd loads of friends amongst them and that was never an issue, although they weren't allowed to eat in other peoples houses. I remember my sister beeinga bit sad her best friend couldn't come to her aprty but that was about it.

I would agree fear is probably a facotor, but the thing is that there are extremists in all religions and your Son's friend may just be the child of one, which is a shame but doesn't reflect on other Muslims. I would try and explain that just as he might not understand some parts of his friends lifestyle (such as the 'willy op') they probably find the same thinga bout his lifestyle and sometimes not understanding can make people a bit scared or confused and wary.

Agree and disgree with some of Speedys post.

First up the Asian hierarchy thing- a friend of mine is Indian and ahs told me exactlyt he same herself, that they prefer Asian people, white peole are next up and black people last and looked down upon .

However, even if someone is bigoted themselves (and some Muslims are some arent just as in any cultural or religious groouping), they can still live in fear- you might think every person around you is infidel scum 9and I am using that as an extreme I know thats not what most Muslims think), but still be aware that there could be a brick in that window any moment.

Although should add that just because soem Asians feel that way it doesn't mean all do, of course. And she is a Sikh with a family affected by aprtition which may well influence their outlook.

Hierarchical existences and structures are more ingrained in people from the Indian sub-continent regrdless of their religion- indeed although Sikhism claims to have dispensed with all that there's quite a lot of literature showing thats not necessarily the case. Jainism is probably the exception. It dioesn't mean it OK though and needs to be challenged- and the best way to challenge is by being simply nice to epole despite what they appear to think of you. Or what their aprents think of you.

Agree Peachy, I was too dismissive about the fear thing before. I would add though, that fear affects many ethnic groups, especially now when you consider the invidious way immigration is treated in the media.

One of my best friends is a Muslim male. Known him for 20 years. He has met my family, been to my parents house, we've played badminton together and you know what, to this day I have never met his family, been to his house, met his wife or children.. I just accept that is the way it is.

I also have a Muslim female friend of Pakistani origin who was dating a black Muslim Nigerian. She had to end it because her family would never accept him because he is black. She is 38yo for heaven sake!

Speedy DS is mixed race so perhaps that's another angle I hadn't really considered. I was looking at a picture of DS's class and it is so mixed with a good scatter from all over the place. Generally i think it works well but I do notice as you go to the younger years there are very few white children. My friend's ds is in a class and is only one of 2 white children. This is so not representative of the area. About 5 mins away there is a school that is mainly white. How did that happen?

DS has another friend who is Muslim and her Mum is very friendly but as the friend is a girl DS is not that keen to have playdates with her. That's something I have been working on over the years but except for 1 girl he deffo prefers boys.