Help: appoint elderly grandparents as guardians?

[DRDG]

Advice needed: we have been putting off writing a will, mostly because we can’t agree on whom to appoint as guardians for our children. I would like to appoint good friends who live locally and have children, and DH wants us to appoint his parents aged 82 and 76, who live in Germany.

My father in law is 82 and suffers from various health issues and has been hospitalised on a few occasions in the last years. My MIL is 76 and in good health. Our children are 4, 6 and 8 and all else aside, I feel their grandparents are too old to look after them until they reach adulthood. They have never even babysat the children, ironically my husband hesitates to ask them.

Add to this that our children do not speak or understand German very well. My parents in law have a very busy social life and we see each other two or three times per year. For this reason it is not a very close relationship between grandparents and grandchildren, but there is mutual appreciation and even love (I hope).

My husband feels that this is the only option we have in terms of guardians, and that his parents would love and care for the children, and also that they have the finances to do so. I just feel it would be such a disruptive move for the children, should it ever come to this. I feel that they don't know our children very well, and I also worry about them transferring to a German school.

I am feeling very unsure about the proposed arrangements and would appreciate your thoughts and comments. I also wonder how likely it is that they would even be approved as guardians based on their age alone, and the ages of our children.

Personally I would rule the grandparents out on age alone. What could be more traumatic than to lose your parents, move to a foreign country and then possibly lose your grandparents shortly after. Pick someone local so they would still have their friends nearby.

We have ruled out grandparents too because they are in their 70s. Even if they lived another 20 years they expect to end up in a retirement or care home. They can barely keep up with our 1 yo now. I can understand the impulse to stick with family though.

Sorry but I think he's mad. In the terrible event that your children need to be cared for by guardians, they will just have been bereaved of both their parents and desperately need stability. And your husband wants to send them to another country, whose language they don't speak, to live with grandparents they don't really know that well who have never cared for them? And then have them bereaved of at least one of their substitute parents in short order? Literally the only thing this plan has in its favour is genetic links, and those could still be maintained if they go to friends.

I have had to make a similar choice. My PIL live close and adore my kids. They are great for an evening babysitting or taking my oldest out for the day, but the fact is that they're already past the point where they can cope with two boisterous DC full-time, even though they're younger than your PILs. And I would not put my kids in the position of facing the loss of their substitute parents so young. We have named my DSis and DBIL as guardians - it would involve a physical move but they are at least of an age to be parents to my kids and see them into adulthood.

Oh, and if you have life insurance and have set up your wills correctly there should be funds for whoever raises your children. You can have your estate, plus life insurance funds put into trusts in your children's names with your chosen guardians as administrators so that the funds can help support their upbringing.

I do understand my husband's impulse to choose his parents, like Sunrise said earlier, but I don't think it's a practical solution. Unfortunately we both have such small families that the options are extremely limited. We just keep putting the whole thing off which isn't ideal!

QueenAravis, my thoughts exactly. It would be incredibly unfair towards the children to have to experience the loss of not only your parents but one or both of your substitute parents. And what plans would have to be made for that eventuality I wonder...

Sorry but the more I think about this, the more annoyed I get at your husband. From what you've written, your FIL already needs care himself really. He expects his mother to care simultaneously for a frail husband and 3 children? How long would her good health hold out in that scenario? Would she even say yes to this plan if consulted?

How on Earth are 80+ yr old going to manage life with 3 young children if you pop your clogs tomorrow your dh is being far to sentimental tell him he is being selfish on his parents expecting his elderly parents to be guardians. You can get regular visits to Gp written into your Will and go with the friends.

Actually, whoever you appoint as guardians can be overruled by the courts. If you should both die together, leaving them with no parents, they will gat a court appointed guardian in the first instance who will act in their best interest. The likelihood of them choosing very elderly relatives in a different country is highly unlikely.
Your priority is making your wills regardless of this issue, as if you die without one it's an absolute nightmare to sort out. If you die together, say in a car crash, then the rules of inheritance come into play.

Even if they were much younger and in good health it’s a terrible idea. Leaving everything and everybody they know and going to live in another country.

DRDG it's good to be thinking of this now, loads of parents don't. We appointed friends who were sadly not able to have kids, but I knew they would love our Dcs to bits. I knew that Dps and Dpils would always love them and want to be involved.
That was 25 years ago so we never had to use guardians. Go with your gut feeling, your pil's sound lovely but would be too old. Possibly if the worst happened, the courts would also draw this conclusion and foster parents not known would possibly be appointed.

We had another discussion the other day and sadly my husband is adamant that we appoint his parents. He feels that money will take care of everything, in the sense that my mother in law would have the means to employ a nanny to help care for them etc. He admits that his father is unlikely to take an active part in the care of their children but believes his mother will age like queen Elizabeth and is likely to be in good health until our children are adults. I think that is a very risky position to take.

And furthermore I don’think we can simply assume that the court would share this view, and approve her as a guardian despite her age.

Sorry about all the typos.

Your husband is being silly.

Elderly grandparents in another country who don’t speak the same language as the children are not the best guardian option.

He’s not being kind to your children. In the event guardians are needed the children do not need to move countries to live with people who may well die before the children are adults.

He’s also not being kind to his parents who have full lives and have done their parenting. Let them be grandparents.

We have family friends, not my parents, brother, BIL or SIL.
Because the family friends know the DC well, they have the time and energy, they share our parenting 'values'. I am confident they would enable the DC to maintain family links.

Would your PIL even want to be guardians?

I'm sorry you're having to deal with this, it must be very challenging. Does his mother have any idea that you are discussing this? And did you also discuss the issue of a country move to a country whose language they don't speak?

I wonder if there's someone whose expert advice you could seek e.g. a family solicitor who might be able to give him a reality check on the subject. If you haven't actually spoken to his mother I think you need to be aware that she could refuse guardianship.

Has DH actually asked his parents?

You can always name someone to be a physical guardian and someone else to be a financial guardian. Could that be more helpful a compromise for you (you also need a back up for a financial guardian if your first choice doesnt want to do it if you actually do both die)

Grandparents will always be grandparents and they can play a backup / background role but the younger friends would be better placed to do day to day parenting. I would put it to your husband that way, and maybe SeatoSki's point about financial guardianship versus physical guardianship might be helpful in that.

I'd also point out that you have as much right of veto as him. He doesn't get to insist on saying no to the friends and yes to his parents and that's that.

The elderly issue would be one discussion. The biggy is the fact you're considering appointing people that your children barely know that live in another country. That's just a complete and utter no no, surely. I think you have to put your foot down on this one. For me, it would be completely non negotiable.

The courts/children's services would likely take responsibility for them in the absence of any suitable relatives who could care for them immediately after you die (let's assume you don't though!)
It's by no means assumed that they would go and live with their elderly grandparents in another country.
Does your dh not get that they won't need nannies and elderly grandparents, they will need stability and parenting ?

A family of 3 children I know were placed with long term foster parents as the only grandparent, though a fit and healthy 55 year old, was deemed too old to take care of them.

This is an issue we have i.e absolutely no suitable relatives and as I now have 3 children including a baby, I don't feel there is anyone that I could ask friend wise (I would want the 3 children to stay together ideally) and all of my friends have 2+ children, so this would be a major ask.

I am considering something that is nearly as desperate and that is asking my eldest daughter to become guardian when she is 18 (in a few years) I would hate to burden her with this at such a young age but we are absolutely stuck and my wish is for my girls to remain together (ideally within the family)., should something happen to me and dh. I don't even know if this would be possible plus my eldest is considering a career that would involve study.

You have my sympathies...this isn't easy when you have little family to rely on. x

Thank you everyone who took the time to reply. It is incredibly difficult as we have hardly any family on either side, and as most of our friends have two or more children already, it is not an easy thing to ask someone to take on three additional children (who are also likely to be traumatised and in need of a lot of emotional support following the death of their parents). For the time being we just have to try to stay alive so this won't become an issue...

Just like QueenAravis suggested, my plan has always been to have the solicitor we appoint give my husband a reality check. Once he realises that his parents might not even be approved as guardians, he will have to explore other options.

And no, we haven't asked PIL about this yet. However I have every reason to believe my MIL would say yes, it is in her nature to do so. My only hope is that she would be sensible enough to see the challenges for what they are, and encourage my husband to seek other options, but I don't think she would like to admit that she wouldn't be up to the task.

The other note is that if anything terrible were to happen, the courts would not only go by what is in your will - this is helpful and important but there would be consideration taken of who is genuinely best placed to provide care and continuity. Even if the guardians suggested seem like the best placed at the time a lot can change with health problems, relationship problems or even criminal problems - and they have to review this, which might be calming for you.

Of course it's best if all this can be clearly agreed by everyone in advance, but there's also a view sometimes on Mumsnet that when you appointment guardians it's like you will away your DCs - it's not like that.