French speaking nursery, English speaking parents - how long for 2.8 year old to be fluent?

[Rantmum]

To any MNers with a similar experience - we are moving to a French speaking area and ds will start nursery there. My ds will be 2.8 when he starts nursery and I was planning to put him in for 5 days, but on reflection wonder if this will be too much for him at this age. DH and I speak very poor french although we intend to take classes to brush up, so I had thought that maybe a daily dose of immersion at this age will ensure that he is fluent by the time "real" school starts - any thoughts? Will 3 days initially be enough under these circumstances?

I've been chatting away to my DS (2.7) in French but am now wondering whether to wait until he speaks properly in English! I'm not french but my french is good enough to teach children. That would be my only concern if it were me. Otherwise, if your DS can speak english well, I would send him as he'll soak it up like a sponge I'd imagine. It's different if the child has at least 1 bi-lingual parent but perhaps as you both don't speak french, I'd look into it a bit more first. I'm sure there will be some good advice online.

Hi Rantmum, me and dh are Italian and this is the language we speak at home (we live in England obviously). We decided that we want the dc to be fluent in English before the school started, so, our first born started to attend a nursery when he was 15 months for two days a week. He started to speak in Italian when he was two, and his English started to coming along really nicely when he was three (before he would understand perfectly but would just say words, not a long phrase) and attending nursery 5 mornings a week. He is now in reception and doing very well. Dd started nursery at 12 months again twice a week, but she was much quicker than her brother. At 18 months her italian vocabulary was very good and at 2 her English was established. I hope this helps. I'd go for 3 days a week to start with. Good luck with your move!

Are you moving to France? Are you putting him in French maternelle? If so, I think you are fine putting your ds in petite section for half days only every day.

We are going to Luxembourg but want to put him in a French school - a nursery first followed by a French primary school when the time comes. I think that the primary school does follow the Ecole Maternelle - French system. I know it would be easier if one of us spoke fluent French at home (we can speak a bit) but I am worried that "bad" French at home would be worse than no French at all and getting the proper language skills from nursery and school. I guess starting him at 3 mornings a week and then increasing it to 5 when he turns 3 in January is probably the best way - it is so hard to know.

I went to school in Luxembourg (European School). The Luxembourgish school is a system all of its own - you don't want to go there.

I don't honestly have any idea about early years education beyond the Luxembourgish school and the European School, and things will have changed hugely since I was there. But do try to send your child to a proper French or proper English nursery.

By the way, Luxembourg isn't a French-speaking country. It's a Luxembourgish speaking country.

Rantmum, I can not add more to the advice you have been given about nursery times but with regards to your language. Don't worry much about your French (no matter how good it is it won't be long before your baby is correcting your pronunciation! ).

If you want your children to be bilingual speak your language at home and let them to learn French at school. I'm not going to say it will be easy but the new language will soon come along with such a strenght that I can say you will find it more difficult for them to speak proper English than French.

Thanks Anna, yes we are avoiding the luxembourg state school system for the reasons that you state - no offence to any luxembourgish speakers - but we do want ds to learn at least one other language if we are going to live on the continent anyway (+ the inlaws are Belgian so French should come in handy there)

Thanks Chandra - I am probably more worried than I need to be - fear of the unknown and pfb syndrome rolled into one! Lol at ds teaching me - it is highly probable, he is already a little "professor".

Rantmum - Luxembourg is a great place to bring up children. In many ways I wish I could bring up my daughter there. It's such a well-off place, there are so many facilities and lovely countryside too.

Do you know about Luxembourg Accueuil? It's a place where newcomers can go to meet people/take classes/get information.

No I hadn't heard of that. It sounds interesting, do you know if there is a website?

Also, I know you said you were at the European school - what languages were you taught in? And is it a requirement that the parents of the students there work, in some capacity, for EU institutions?

At the European School I was taught in English. In the secondary school some subjects are taught in a pupil's second language (mine was French), and all foreign languages are taught through the medium of the language concerned.

Yes, the European School is for children of people who work in the institutions. Very hard to get in otherwise (but you can always try) and you'd have to pay.

www.luxembourgaccueil.com

Thanks very much, Anna (I am looking forward to it, but I do have some concerns, not least because we are moving with DH's job and I have never even visited - we are planning a wkend there during the summer, though)

my son was understanding french and could speak it after half a term, iirc. He joined maternelle at a similar age to your ds.

Rantmum, I´m in the same situation as you. My lo started nursery 5 mornings a weeks recently and it is working really well. The first few weeks were something of an adjustment but I really don´t think language immersion is a problem at this age. To me, the question would be is your DS ready for 3 or 5 days a week nursery in his own language. If so, it will be fine in French. Children don´t seem to see this type of situation as any different to play using their mother tongue.

Rantmum, yesterday I had a full lesson on the correct pronunciation of the word Tortoise

Rantmum my brother-in-law and his family live in Lux and their kids go to the European school which has been brilliant for them. They (5 & 8) are both bilingual French & English. The school is so used to kids from different backgrounds that there seems to be good support for everyone. Its does seem to be a great place to bring up kids - they are vv happy there.

Thanks everyone, you have been so helpful and you have given me some more options to consider before our move! Fortunately, I can still MN once we move, so that is one thing that won't change.

The only other thing I still want to know is what IS the correct pronunciation of Tortoise?

I will send DS over! (if he has time to sort me up before he starts Reception)

Rantmum - do you know where you are going to be living? If I could have my time again, I'd definitely start off living in town, there's really very little happening in the villages/suburbs whereas the town has lots going on, a lovely park, swimming baths etc.

Our DSX3,( aged 4,5 and 6 ) have all been in a french maternelle since January......they can now chatter away in french ...they had a bit beforehand as I'm half french and spoke to them a bit in french when we lived in London...I think 5 mornings sounds a lot for a little mite of that age......my 4 yearold DS goesx3 mornings, and 5 year old goesx3 full days, and 6 year old x 4 full days...that's plenty imo.....pushing little ones into formal education so early is a mistake I think....2 is very young for school...

mozhe - quite agree that lots of children seem to go to school awfully (too) early in France. How many children are there in your DSs classes? I was at the paedatrician's recently with my daughter and there was a little 4 year old boy seeing the psychologist there for "treatment" because he didn't like going to maternelle for 10 hours a day, 5 days a week... the poor mother was being made to feel like a failure...

They are quite big classes imo, around 20-24.....much bigger than private pre-prep 2 eldest were at in London,( then they were in classes of 8 and 11 children ! )....but it is supposed to be nicest school in the town we are in...I'm not convinced tbh....I think I should have put them in the steiner school but not worth hassle of changing them now...They seem happy so It is MUCH cheaper than London school too !!

sorry since when ecole maternelle is formal education? If ecole maternelle resembles Italian scuola materna then no one is pushed into learning anything.
whereas it's all right to start reception at 4 and a half?