Struggling with my 4 year old.

[QueenofmyPrinces]

I don’t know what I’m after here - just some reassurance or support or something because I’m feeling a bit down lately.

I’ve got an 8 month old son and an older boy who has just turned 4.

The 4 year old is incredibly, incredibly hard work. He never used to be but over the last month in particular he’s just relentless. I used to look forward to and enjoy our days together but now I just dread them even though that sounds awful.

He is in childcare three days a week because of his funded childcare so I do get a break but the other 4 days are hard work.

The sibling rivalry is so difficult and I know that’s where 75% of the problem lies but no matter what I do to address it it’s just getting worse.

Sometimes we have the most wonderful moments together and he’s an absolute pleasure to be around but lately it’s few and far between.

He’s a wonderful boy and I love him very much. He’s so clever and so funny and sometimes I look at him and could burst with how much love I have for him, but then at other times I feel at breaking point, suffocated and stressed to the max with his behaviour.

I have a fantastic husband who is very hands on and supportive but he’s finding it difficult too.

I feel like everyone else has 4 year olds and cope perfectly well and so I must be failing somehow.

I’m just feeling pretty crap

Lovebombing.

I have a 4 yr Old ds and I've noticed a huge change in his behaviour. I think there's so much going on developmentally and adjusting to a new sibling must be sending him over the edge. You must be exhausted too

If you can (and I appreciate that if your dh works full time or gets in late it's tricky), spend some one-on-one time with ds1 each day. Read a book or do some stickers or set him a task while you're feeding dc2 and try to keep him engaged.

Do you get out much? Both of my boys (4 & 2), need running around in the park every day for an hour so rain or shine. I find their behaviour improves when they've been given a opportunity to let off steam.

Lastly, I've started a marble jar for the 4 yr old. He gets 5 max a day; 1 for mealtimes (breakfast, lunch, dinner; helping set the table & good manners); 1 for tidying toys away; 1 for putting coat & shoes away. If he does something else he gets a bonus marble ('helping' clean, showing kindness to his brother, etc.,). I don't take marbles away if he doesn't do something so only good behaviour is rewarded. At the end of the week he gets a treat (size depends on how many marbles), or he can save his marbles and get a bigger treat the following week (if he gets more marbles). It's worked well so far now that he's got the hang of it.

It's hard though and I appreciate you must be tired with a young baby. It will get easier. Lots of parents have told me that their boys calmed right down when they started school too.

I could have written this post! I have a 4 yr old and 8 month old and am really struggling, esp as 8 month old has been sleeping really badly for some time now and so 4 yr old is constantly tired as he gets disturbed in the night....
No real answers (will watch replies with interest...) but my 4 year old is def hard work too.

I’m hoping that school settles him down.

I’ve escaped the house for an hour this morning and by the time I got back my husband was frazzled and then we got into a huge row and I just burst in to tears. It’s getting me down so much.

I’m exhausted, the baby is a bad sleeper and every morning my 4 year old comes into my room, anywhere between 5-6am and purposefully wakes me and the baby up. We have tried everything to get him to stop but he doesn’t care. When he came into me this morning at 5.10am and kept poking me until I woke up I just exploded at him. He seems to think making me and his dad angry is some kind of game. He knows exactly what will wind us up and so deliberately does it. He doesn’t listen to anything we say, he just does the exact opposite of what we tell him to do and this goes on from the minute he wakes up until he goes to bed.

My DH and the 4 year old do a lot of things together at the weekend (they’ve just gone out now actually) but even he had said it’s getting to the stage that he doesn’t want to do it anymore.

I’m stuck in the house a lot because I can’t go to friends or familie’s houses because I’m too embarrassed by the behaviour of my 4 year old.

I spend as

I spend so much time with him when I can. I do every bath time and bed time, we read stories and sing songs etc before bed and whenever the baby naps me and the 4 year old spend time doing whatever he wants and he reverts back to being lovely.

He wants me for EVERYTHING though - no matter what he wants he asks for me, even if his dad is home too. Getting drinks, getting him dressed, playing games, brushing his teeth, helping on the toilet, reading a book, getting a snack etc etc it’s all me. All I hear during the day is him shouting mom, mom, mom, MOM!!

Even when I’m in the shower I ca hear him hollering for me. It’s suffocating.

He’s wanting your attention and doesn’t care whether that is negative or positive. Are you spending any time with him without the baby?

I have a 4year old and a 7 month old. It's hard work. DC1 is really challenging just now. I try and spend one on one time with her which I think helps. Though some days everything is a battle. She can be really emotional to.

Could your DH find something for the 2 of them at the weekend to try and make him less clingy to you?

Could your DH find something for the 2 of them at the weekend to try and make him less clingy to you?

That might do more harm than good if he feels he’s lost his Mum to the baby and then he’s taken away from her too.

He’s wanting your attention and doesn’t care whether that is negative or positive. Are you spending any time with him without the baby?

In the week I only have one-on-one time during baby nap times and then when I do bath time and story time with him and then at the weekend we like to try and spend time together as a family.

The baby is breast fed (won’t entertain a bottle or any other drinking device) which also makes it hard to be away from him a long time.

I suppose at the weekend I could just take my son to the local park for an hour or so though. The strange thing though is that the 4 year old absolutely loves his baby brother and hates going anywhere without him. Whenever I pass a comment about us going somewhere his first question is always “can (baby name) come too?”

If I were to suggest going to the park, just the two of us, he’d probably just say he would only go if the baby cane too. He can’t wait for the baby to start at the childminders with him when I go back to work.

It purely is just attention seeking and going ballistic when he’s told not to do something.

Could your DH find something for the 2 of them at the weekend to try and make him less clingy to you?

My DH and DS go swimming together every Saturday or they go to watch a sports match on Sunday and they’ve been doing this for about 3 years now. However, the 4 year old is now saying he wants his baby brother to come too but part of me wonders if that’s brcause if the baby goes it means I will face to go to - ergo he gets to spend more time with me.

What type of behaviour are we talking about op? Tantrums? Lashing out?

The clinging is normal for this age I think. I know my ds (4.4) needs more of me than he used to and definately more than my dd (2.9). I've just accepted it really and try to incorporate him in the things I do.

Throwing things around the living room when he knows he shouldn’t.

Hurling things at his bedroom door if he is put in there for time out.

Shouting, stomping, screaming if he doesn’t get his own way or is shouted at.

Deliberately hurting his brother.

Blowing raspberries/spitting in people’s faces if he’s told out.

Lashing out at me or his dad (more me though).

He argues with us over EVERYTHING!

If we ask him not to do something, like hitting the remote on the table, he just looks up, grins and starts hitting it even harder on the table.

Refusal to engage in conversations when we try and discuss with him why he can’t do x, y or z.

Every day is a constant battle of him doing exactly what he likes with no care about right or wrong, or consequences etc.

He’s as good as gold in childcare.

Can one of you sleep with ds1 so that he has someone with him and see if that stops him coming in your room? I'm guessing your co-sleeping so baby, you and dh are all in one bed. We ended up doing this for a while and then when ds2 went in his room, ds1 was ok on his own again. Plus it meant every one got a chunk of sleep at some point.

It does get better, hang in there

I co- sleep with the baby and my husband sleeps in the spare room.

We always tell the 4 year old that if he ever needs anything in the night or early in the morning when he wakes up then he is to go to daddy’s bedroom and daddy will help him. The 4 year old will nod his head, say OK mommy, and then without fail come and wake me up anyway the next night/morning.

I’m running on so little sleep that it’s not helping.

He woke us up (me and the baby) at 5am on Friday morning, 5.30am yesterday and 5.10am this morning. I wanted to kill him this morning when he did it, I was so so angry. I asked him why he was still doing it when he knew he had to go and get daddy and he just says “Because I want to.”

The other day I was awake between 2-4am with the baby and was then woken (and baby was) at just gone 5am.

I don’t think I’d mind so much if he had a genuine reason for waking us but he doesn’t, he just does it because he can.

We always tell the 4 year old that if he ever needs anything in the night or early in the morning when he wakes up then he is to go to daddy’s bedroom and daddy will help him. The 4 year old will nod his head, say OK mommy, and then without fail come and wake me up anyway the next night/morning.

Poor little chap. He misses you.

He used to have you to himself. He’s probably feeling completely pushed out by the baby.

And from the language you’re using here, he’s not far wrong. 4 year olds aren’t rational. You’re expecting too much of him.

I feel for you. I am in a similar situation with a 5 month old DS and 4.5 yo DD. One thing that has worked quite well for us is pointing out the benefits to her of me/baby getting enough sleep. We have the same system that she’s to wake daddy in the morning not me. I say stuff to her like let me just settle the baby for his nap then I’ll have more time to play with you, we don’t want a grumpy baby with us. Or if mummy gets to have a rest in the morning I’ll have more energy for playing later. I also think the marble jar reward system as suggested above could help.
It’s so tough and when you’re tired dealing with the difficult behaviour is just utterly wearing isn’t it.
Also I’m guessing he’ll be off to school in September given his age. So tell yourself this too shall pass. When I’m feeling frustrated with my 4 yo I try and remind myself that when she’s at school in a few months I’ll probably miss her like crazy even if it doesn’t feel like it. Hang on in there. I’m sure you doing a great job. Not much advice but lots of sympathy.

Can you bring the 4 year old into bed with you? Totally not ideal I know or let him come in the bed when he wakes you but only if he's quiet? I used to let mine watch something on my phone when DH was working away (ds1 is up with the larks too). It's not great but it bought me an extra hour or so.

Ultimately he wants you. He wants baby to come everywhere because you have to be where the baby is. At this stage you just need sleep and you'll find you can cope (a bit) better with all of the other crap that gets thrown at you. Figure out where you can get some extra kip.

And really heap on the praise when he's good; I'm so proud of you, you're such a superstar for helping me with the baby, you're my favourite...(mine was blonde haired boy because my kids have different hair colour!).

My DD is 5, lately we have noticed a huuuge dip in her behaviour. Her attitude especially is shite. Sadly since she started school this seems to be the norm. I'm pregnant too so I know that isn't helping.

We've started a marble jar, but without specific tasks - we noticed that setting her tasks to earn them meant she only focused on that, and the rest of her behaviour wasn't so checked because it 'didnt count' as it were. We also try not to come down too hard on the crappy behaviour (within reason) so she is getting more praise than anything else. And for simple things such as helping me find a table at a busy park for our lunch, or for helping with the shopping etc. Seems to be working & it keeps her on her toes a bit...and she loves it when we get the marble bag out for a reward!

That sort of behaviour sounds very very similar to what we have here - hitting baby but also really loves him, laughing at being told off etc etc. I haven't solved it entirely but the following are some general tips that have helped somewhat:

• plenty of exercise
• try to stay as calm as possible (hard I know!) otherwise you are accidentally rewarding the behaviour with attention (even if negative). I read the book Toddler Taming and although I wouldn't necessarily agree with everything in it, the idea that it's all about attention is a useful one I think.

eg when he hurts his brother I try to make a massive fuss of baby (even if not really hurt) and completely ignore 4 year old. Which seems very counterintuitive as my instinct is to lecture him at length about not hitting, how he's made his brother feel sad etc but I found that ignoring him was much more effective than lecturing or shouting. I have sometimes had consequences too eg taking toys away or banning him from going near his brother for an hour.

• plan consequences and rewards in advance (with your OH) and then calmly stick to them when there is bad behaviour and/or catching good behaviour.
• ignore minor bad behaviour where possible
• chocolate (for you) and Cbeebies (for 4 year old)...

Definitely don't stay in the house if you have a high energy child like mine - if you're nervous about behaviour with other children then go to a field or something. Imagine you've got a collie or spaniel which needs lots of exercise..!!

Thanks everyone for your replies, they’ve been very helpful.

It doesn’t help that DH and I have different parenting techniques and coping mechanisms.

I think DH is too strict and he thinks I’m too soft.

We had/have the exact same situation. The waking myself and baby up early in the morning constantly was particularly trying!

We decided to start a specific star chart around this and going to bed which was another flashpoint as he didn’t want to stop running in to wherever myself and baby were. I drew up a simple star chart grid, bought some jazzy star stickers. One sticker for going to bed nicely after saying night night and one sticker for going downstairs with his dad upon waking without coming into mine and baby’s room. Made it v achievable at first, so one or two nights worth of stars for an agreed on treat. Then extended to four or five nights. The treat was usually something like going to the park, soft play or buying a magazine in town. We explained the star chart process clearly and often and ensured he knew it was his choice to gain a star or not. For our ds who is 4 , this worked well.

I also started a singalong time with him and I and baby. He would choose nursery rhymes with actions and tickles to do together towards the baby. I found this quality time whilst also allowing him to get his hit of closeness to and touching the baby in a more positive way , quite helpful to his behaviour also. Just a few ideas which work for us.

We started a reward chart the other day which had had some success. My son absolutely loves board games so I did it in the form that every morning that he doesn’t disturb me and the baby he moves his counter (a little dinosaur figure) one square along his chart as opposed to placing a sticker on it. Some of the squares (about 20 out of the 70) are different colours and contain a prize which he wins when his counter lands on it. We did the chart together so I let him pick his own prizes which are things like a trip to soft play, a trip to the library, hot dogs for tea, a new pair of socks, a new comic etc etc.

He’s naturally an early riser, hence why he’s been coming up to us, so now before DH and I go to bed we leave out his tablet, his breakfast and a drink which he then helps himself too rather than waking me up to ask for it as he was doing that too. He knows that he has to stay in his room with his tablet/brekkie/drink and can only come up to us when the sun comes out on his gro-clock. We are currently on Day 4 of his game and it’s worked every morning so far.

He wasn’t in childcare one day earlier this week so I made a HUGE deal of spending quality time with him, playing games, painting, reading stories, a trip to the park and various other things he likes doing and I had a really, really lovely day with him. His behaviour was the best it’s been in as long as I can remember. I had to tell him off one or two times but only got minor things and that’s far, far less than I’d usually have to deal with any behaviour issues.

I had such a lovely day with him that I’m now looking forward to the next day he’s not in childcare which we can spend together as opposed to dreading it which I have previously been doing.

I know it’s early days but some progress has been made so I will just see how things progress.

This morning he asked me if he could have another baby brother so he’d have two but I told him daddy might not be so keen on that idea

Such a lovely update, I'm glad you've found a strategy that works for you. The board game reward chart is a genius idea - I may pinch your idea.

Glad you've had some positivity :) It's funny what works sometimes.
I found if I tried to make breakfast while both children loose = 4 yr old hits brother to get my attention.

But if I ask 4 yr old to 'look after' his brother while I make breakfast (obviously not left alone) he behaves much better...