Breastfeeding - dairy free help

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Hi all

Bit of background - my 7 week old has symptoms of silent reflux (unsettled and frequently cries, knees up and back arching, fussy feeder, poor sleeper). Dr prescribed gaviscon, just seemed to send him on the road to constipation. Next we tried ranitidine - he started throwing up a lot and seemed even more unsettled, so we've just taken him off that over the weekend.

He had to have a bit of formula over the weekend when my parents were babysitting, and afterwards came out with a rash around his eye that seemed to be quite itchy for him (lots of rubbing). Dr has today said could be dairy allergy and prescribed dairy free formula as the best test of this - even times though I'm currently breastfeeding.

I'm reluctant to switch to formula until we know dairy is definitely an issue - is this really the best thing to do?! And from anyone who has previously eliminated dairy from their own diet and carried on breastfeeding, any tips? Good dairy free ranges or surprising things dairy is in which I'll need to avoid? It's going to be a challenge as I definitely eat more than my fair share of choc digestives and we're over reliant on convenience meals like a good old lasagne!

Thanks!

Sorry - meant for chat section, no idea how it ended up here. Reported.

kicking is your DD seen by an allergy clinic? It's just that she could also be intolerant of other things as well as dairy (quite common!), so cutting out dairy alone would not make the reflux abate. E.g. My DD (not much older) is also intolerant of gluten, soya, grapes, carrots and many many other fruits and veg. So her symptoms did not fully resolve until we cut them all our. Also - is she having investigations? In our area, toddlers who are still having symptoms at her age are referred to paediatric gastroenterology, who usually want to do an endoscopy to check what's going on.

Sorry OP, hope I haven't derailed. I see you have got lots of great advice on dairy free products. I would just add Nairns Biscuit Breaks. I also saw M&S have expanded their range recently, they had some df and also gf breakfast pancakes I'll be trying to DD soon.

@JiltedJohnsJulie - the yellow tub of stork is NOT dairy free but the gold wrapped block IS (or was when I was df a couple of years ago).
I'd really recommended looking out for stuff that is accidentally dairy free rather than marketed as such. I think bourbons and Jaffa cakes are both df.

Thank boat I didn’t know that about the Stork

Queen, my daughter is tomato free as it affects her silent reflux (tomato is very acidic), so she's not allergic to it, just causes her pain. I think it can cause skin issues for some though.

I have no idea why everything seems to be blamed on dairy and I dont believe dairy affects breast milk as much as people say.
If there's a problem people always say dairy. My baby had nappy rash and someone suggested cutting out dairy. I said I would not be doing such a thing and people seemed shocked that I refused to cut out dairy. Nappy rash has got better- though it comes and goes, he just has a sensitive bum

Also it takes 4 weeks to get dairy out of body apparently, how do you know whether it is then the dairy that caused reflux or whether it would have gone away with time?

I went dairy and soy free with DS (still breastfeeding).

Lots of stir fries and grilled fish; lots of porridge; coconut, oat or rice "milks". Olive oil, avocado, fish, nuts, seeds in abundance to make up for lack of fats elsewhere (and all these are better types of fat than those in dairy and soy products anyway).

No bought normal bread or biscuits (milk/whey protein, soy protein in all of them, including things like rice biscuits) but pita breads are ok. Most bought dry pasta is ok.

It's an extremely healthy diet - you feel absolutely great because you're essentially forced to cut out almost all processed food. And you can binge on things like coconut cream! Once you get used to the idea of a piece of fruit and a bowl of porridge oats with a bit of coconut milk, as your afternoon snack, instead of four chocolate digestives and a cup of tea with milk, then it becomes pretty easy.

I have no idea why everything seems to be blamed on dairy and I dont believe dairy affects breast milk as much as people say.

Are you a doctor specialising in food allergy and intolerance then, rubyroot? Because all of the paediatric allergists I have encountered are very firmly of the opinion that CMPI/A is a real thing. People suggest trying cutting out dairy because that is the most likely food to be causing problems. Closely followed by gluten, soy and wheat.

I said I would not be doing such a thing and people seemed shocked that I refused to cut out dairy

If you are not a food allergy specialist, why do you think your opinion is more valid than theirs? Why would you not even try to alleviate your DC's discomfort, given it is relatively easy to cut it out, and see what happens? I can't imagine blithely leaving my own DD in agony without bothering to even try to help her. No wonder people 'seemed shocked'.

My boy started having really bad nappies around 3 months old with white lumps in them. The white was the milk protein that his body couldn't digest. I cut out all dairy and saw a difference within two days!

It does take up to 4 weeks for it to get out of your system though so stick with it. I then tried a pure soya yoghurt and the same thing happened, soya protein is very similar to milk protein, so worth bearing in mind if you don't see a change!

It's surprisingly easy to cut out dairy, I drink Oatly Barista, it's lovely in coffee and doesn't separate. Alpro do a whole range, their almond chocolate milk is lovely! Oatly also do things like cream alternative, custard, creme fraiche (which I use instead of sour cream) and I hear they're currently working on making a cream cheese. It makes cutting soya much easier too!

It seems daunting to start with but it's just a case of checking labels constantly and checking allergy menus when out. FB has some really helpful groups if you search CMPA and breastfeeding. Lots of sharing products and helpful info.

"Are you a doctor specialising in food allergy and intolerance then, rubyroot?"
No- just an ordinary person with common sense who is able to think for themselves.

"Because all of the paediatric allergists I have encountered are very firmly of the opinion that CMPI/A is a real thing."

Yes, CMPA is a real thing- stands for cows milk protein allergy and affects only 0.5-1% of breasfed babies as opposed to a higher rate of formula fed babies.

"Why would you not even try to alleviate your DC's discomfort, given it is relatively easy to cut it out, and see what happens?"

I was waiting for the typical and predictable mumsnetter response- yep, I must be a bad mother. As above- just because a few people on facebook suggest my babies rash could be dairy doesn't mean it is, in fact extremely unlikely as only affects 0.5%-1% of babies. I decided that the benefits and nutrients from dairy outweighed the disadvantages and did not want to risk my baby developing an allergy as a response to not being exposed to dairy.

And guess what? I was right...so not an evil mother.

"I can't imagine blithely leaving my own DD in agony without bothering to even try to help her. No wonder people 'seemed shocked'. confused"

Ha- just saw this. Slightly OTT don't you think?

I can't remember saying my baby was in agony! Wow, you must be a perfect mother, albeit a virtue signalling one.

Just because someone who has jumped on the dairy bandwagon says its dairy doesn't mean it is, there were no other symptoms (there's quite a few look it up) apart from being windy which many babies are.

Now I'm not saying the baby involved doesnt have a problem with dairy, but if reflux is the only symptom as the post infers it may not always be the case.

My post was really an observation that people seem to blame dairy on everything and I think it is a bit of a fad that is being exaggerated given the amount of bf babies which actually suffer from it.

You were right?! Actually, if your DS were to have a dairy intolerance, by continuing to feed it to him you could be causing serious harm to his gut. Did you ever discuss it with a medical professional to see what their view was?

Anyway, I'm sure your 'common sense' is more valid than a medical degree, years of on-the-job training, and access to the latest research.....

Oh, and dairy foods, delicious though they are, do not contain any nutrients that you can't get elsewhere.

"Did you ever discuss it with a medical professional to see what their view was?"

No when a layperson on facebook or mumsnet suggests something I don't generally self diagnose and go running to doctor. I did go to my doctor with nappy rash as baby had it since birth and doctor said he probably just has a sensitive bum ( and guess what dr was right too!) and prescribed bepanthan.

As I said its doing the trick.

Love it how when you come up with an alternative viewpoint on mumsnet there's always some virtue signalling mumsnetter who won't ket it go.

Okay op- so from what your dr said this is how I am interpreting this.

He is not necessarily suggesting to give up bf ing. Rather, trying formula will be best test as will not see symptoms subside from giving up dairy straight away whilst b f ing- as some posters have mentioned it takes four to eight weeks.

I can totally understand why you would not want to give up dairy it is not my idea of fun.

If I was in your shoes I think I would try the formula, then if it has no impact on reflux perhaps you can rule dairy out and go back to b f ing.

Or if it does have an effect there is your answer. I'm presuming the impact will be more immediate with formula.

Perhaps express a couple of times day to keep your milk flowing. Get in touch with your local breastfeeding support to seek advice with this.

I had no idea about Oatly barista being good for this kind of thing, we've been buying it because it tastes great with coffee (I'm breastfeeding as well anyway). Explains why it's always so low in stock at Tesco!

Please ignore the poster suggesting to switch to formula as a trial and then go back to breastfeeding if that doesn't work. This is not what allergy specialist consultants advise, they are fully supportive of breastfeeding dairy-free first, and only moving to formula if you choose to, not as a trial.

I did a year dairy free feeding with each DC and it wasn't awful, just takes a while to get used to what you can eat. Also worth having them referred to an allergy clinic to be tested for any other allergies. Don't get fobbed off with just seeing a standard paediatrician, you can ask for the referral to be to an allergy clinic.

Oh and rubyroot you really are incorrect about formula fed babies being more likely to have CMPA than breastfed babies, it's just that a baby is exposed much greater levels of the protein in formula, so reactions tend to be more obvious and immediate than via breastmilk.

I did not say it was what specialists advise, rather I was trying to interpret what Dr had said and also I assumed op was not keen on give up dairy ( I may be wrong) so trying to give an alternative solution. Obviously op has to make a choice in consultation with medical advice and perhaps this could be an option.

"Dr has today said could be dairy allergy and prescribed dairy free formula as the best test of this - even though I'm currently breastfeeding."

Could be..not is.

I'm reluctant to switch to formula until we know dairy is definitely an issue - is this really the best thing to do?!

The op wants to know that dairy is definitely the issue, it may not be.

I know that the chocolate, chocolate cake, carrot cake salted caramel cake, thick and creamy yoghurts got/get me through those long days of cluster feeding. I would not fancy giving these up if dairy was not the issue.

Op may be happy to.

As someone mentioned on here - their baby had silent reflux and it was not dairy. Also, baby's digestive systems are immature- 6/7 weeks is often a peak for reflux etc and then some babies do get better.

This may not be the case, but it is not always dairy.

My baby cried for three hours from 11.30pm - 3 .30am from 4-7 weeks. I tried meds, in the end it was time and now baby is pretty chilled. Mainly cries when wants attention or tired.

I realise ops case is more severe, I'm just giving an alternative viewpoint, but yes I expect more mumsnetters to come and attack me.

I realise I am a bad mother for daring to eat dairy when my baby had gas and nappy rash, rather than instantly assuming it was CMPA.

"Oh and rubyroot you really are incorrect about formula fed babies being more likely to have CMPA than breastfed babies"

That's not what all the evidence says: Here is just one expert

ww.mybaba.com/cmpa-leading-expert-professor-neil-shah-answers-your-questions/

rubyroot

Obviously there are various symptoms that would make a GP, paediatrician or other HCP suspect CMPA.
Now in your baby’s case it sounds as if there weren’t enough symptoms to make it likely.
But the OP’s baby is different, and if the GP has suggested CMPA (when it can often go undiagnosed) I think the OP should take the suggestion seriously.
I do think it’s ironic that you are being dismissive about the possibility, when you are also an unqualified stranger on the internet, just like the people on FB who said your baby might have CMPA.

The best way to confirm CMPA in a breastfed baby is for the mother to eliminate all dairy for 6 weeks, to see if symptoms improve, and then do the “yoghurt test” (ie eat some yoghurt) to see if baby reacts. If they do it confirms the diagnosis. If your baby does have CMPA, you’ve saved them a lot of pain by cutting out dairy, and if the baby doesn’t have CMPA, you can go back to eating dairy. Cutting out dairy is hard but not that hard and 6 weeks isn’t that long. I think it’s worth it if you want to carry on breastfeeding. I wouldn’t judge anyone who decided not to do it though. And I have no idea what “virtue signalling” has got to with it.

I think there is some projection and defensiveness in your posts. Maybe the people on FB were not very supportive of you and if that’s the case I’m sorry. But that doesn’t mean anyone here is judging you (or anyone). And frankly the OP’s (and others’) decision about whether or not to cut out dairy in order to continue breastfeeding is actually nothing to do with you and not a reflection on your own choices.

Another thing. I was told to stop breastfeeding, express and give my baby hypoallergenic formula for 2 weeks as a trial. This was bad advice. My gut instinct was that I absolutely did not want to follow it, so I did some research (including talking to a lactation consultant) which confirmed that it would be a bad idea for the following reasons:

• It’s not that simple to stop breastfeeding for 2 weeks and then start again. No breast pump is as effective as a baby at getting milk out, so you risk a decrease in milk supply. There is also a risk that the baby might not take to the bottle, might be upset and confused about the sudden end to breastfeeding, and after 2 weeks might refuse the breast or at least not easily go back to breastfeeding.
• If your baby does have reflux and/or CMPA, breastmilk is easier to digest than formula and it has ingredients that help the gut to heal. Breastfeeding can also comfort and soothe a baby in pain or distress.
• Personally, I enjoy breastfeeding, and I was very upset at the thought of stopping before DS and I were ready. Having a baby with reflux and/or CMPA can be really bloody hard work and breastfeeding was the one thing that felt easy (after overcoming problems at the beginning) and positive. I’m sure I’m not alone in that.

"But the OP’s baby is different, and if the GP has suggested CMPA (when it can often go undiagnosed) I think the OP should take the suggestion seriously."

Yes- I did say this and the op is clearly taking the suggestiom seriously, I am not attempting to change that-

"I realise ops case is more severe, I'm just giving an alternative viewpoint, but yes I expect more mumsnetters to come and attack me."

"I do think it’s ironic that you are being dismissive about the possibility,"

No, not dismissive of the possibility: "The op wants to know that dairy is definitely the issue, it may not be." I did not say it was not the issue, just that it may not be.

"The best way to confirm CMPA in a breastfed baby is for the mother to eliminate all dairy for 6 weeks, to see if symptoms improve, and then do the “yoghurt test” (ie eat some yoghurt) to see if baby reacts. If they do it confirms the diagnosis."

Yes, one of the most sensible things I have read- at least this confirms CMPA, rather than people just assuming it is because things have coincidentally got better.

"I think there is some projection and defensiveness in your posts"

I think there is some projection and defensiveness in your posts- not really I have just noticed there's so many people that are quick to blame dairy and jump on the bandwagon- but you are right, the doctor is looking at symptoms and thinking this could be an issue. I am sure he/she is also aware it may not be too.

"But that doesn’t mean anyone here is judging you"

" I can't imagine blithely leaving my own DD in agony without bothering to even try to help her. No wonder people 'seemed shocked'." confused

I think you could safely see this is someone judging me!

"Another thing. I was told to stop breastfeeding, express and give my baby hypoallergenic formula for 2 weeks as a trial. This was bad advice. My gut instinct was that I absolutely did not want to follow it, so I did some research (including talking to a lactation consultant) which confirmed that it would be a bad idea for the following reasons:"

Which is why I said:
"Perhaps express a couple of times day to keep your milk flowing. Get in touch with your local breastfeeding support to seek advice with this"

"My gut instinct was that I absolutely did not want to follow it,"

I like this.. I think more of us should follow our gut when it comes to babies, rather than accepting the latest fad... perhaps that was the point I am trying to make. And I guess the op will know whether CMPA is a real possibility, as I knew it wasn't.

I think idea of giving up dairy and then eating yoghurt is a good idea, if it was me though I still would have tried everything not to give up dairy because I love dairy too much.