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Original poster

My child won't sleep and I'm on my knees tired

27 replies

ProperLittleMonkey · 24/02/2018 13:59

DD is 2.8, but developmentally closer to 2. And she will not sleep!

We have a bedtime routine of bath-ITNG-medication-book-teeth-bed.

I often hear her playing when I go to bed at 11pm. I've tried returning her to bed (she's in a toddler bed) but she just gets up again as soon as I've left the room. I returned her to bed 47 times one night and she still got up to play immediately afterwards. DH says she's sometimes playing when he gets up for work at 5am. She has a blackout blind (one of those gro anywhere ones) and curtains but it doesn't seem to make a difference, she can't reach the light switch but doesn't seem to care and just plays. We've tried lights on, lights off, a nightlight, music, white noise, letting her have the cat in her room, shutting the cat out of her room, thinner duvet, thicker duvet, no duvet and just her blanket. We've taken all the toys out of her room and she just wandered round the room babbling to herself.

I'm not sleeping because she shouts me in the night, wanting to play. DH works 6.30am-5pm, and is exhausted when he gets in so is no help. He works 6 days so can't really help anytime.

She's in Nursery 3 days a week when I work but even that's not tiring her out and staff say she walks around babbling to herself while the other children sleep at naptime.

I am on my knees with exhasution. No naps and no help from DH. I've taken her to the Doctors but he says there's nothing physically wrong with her. She just never seems tired.

Any ideas on getting her to sleep? I am making myself ill being awake all the time, she just never seems to stop. Neither DM or MIL will have her overnight if she won't sleep, so I have no help. I just want to sleep.

OP posts:
teaandbiscuitsforme · 24/02/2018 16:09

Does she sleep if she sleeps with you?

Original poster
ProperLittleMonkey · 24/02/2018 16:18

We've never co-slept so she gets overexcited and thinks it's playtime when we try.

OP posts:
KMoKMo · 24/02/2018 16:29

Does she stay in her own room then? I’d just ignore her. I wouldn’t be going in just to put her back in bed. My DD used to get up but she could open the door so we stuck a stair gate on her door so she couldn’t physically leave the room and left her there. Take anything dangerous out of the room but leave some quiet toys so she can amuse herself.

Use a video monitor so you can ensure she’s safe and just leave her be. She’ll soon get herself to bed if she wants to sleep.
Use ear plugs if she’s shouting so you can get some sleep and maybe set an alarm at 2 hourly intervals to check on her.
If she really isn’t tired then you won’t be able to force her to sleep but she needs to learn that you and your DH need to sleep so she has to play alone quietly.
Only go in if she needs toilet/nappy change, is ill or geniunely distressed. Leave her some water so she can have a drink.
I don’t see how you can handle it any other way personally. You need to sleep and can’t carry on as you are. How does your DH sleep through it?

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KMoKMo · 24/02/2018 16:30

Also does she do plenty of physical activity and get lots of fresh air? Soft play, parks, being in the back garden etc?

PeterPiperPickedSeaShells · 24/02/2018 16:31

What medication? Could it be something in that which is stimulating her? Might be worth asking a pharmacist?

SilverHairedCat · 24/02/2018 16:32

What's the medication? Is anything in there a stimulant, or potentially contributing to the lack of sleep?

My nephew is the same - he is barely improved at age 6, but his mum made a rod for her own back as she plays with him at all hours of the night....

Original poster
ProperLittleMonkey · 24/02/2018 16:35

Medication is Asthma inhalers and a multivitamin

Go out every single day to a huge meadow and park area, Nursery are always in the garden, if you drive/walk passed you can hear her squaling happily with her friends.

DH has always slept through her crying, even when she was in the cot at the end of our bed and waking every 2 hours for a BF. No idea how.

OP posts:
MyNewBearTotoro · 24/02/2018 16:36

You say she is developmentally closer to 2 and also that her bedtime routine includes medication - does she have a diagnosis? Some conditions do seem to mean children need less sleep than the norm and some children do seem able to get by on just a few hours sleep.

I would try and keep a sleep diary of when she is sleeping if possible to show the doctor if he is dismissing this. Some children with sleep disorders are prescribed melatonin to help them get to sleep which might be a consideration in the future (doubt it would be prescribed yet as she is still so young) if this persists.

In terms of the bedtime routine and strategies you are using it does sound like you are doing everything right and I agree with other posters to ensure her room is safe and just leave her to get on with playing awake if she really don’t sleep so at least you can get some sleep.

halfwitpicker · 24/02/2018 16:37

Swimming?

Meandmy4 · 24/02/2018 16:41

Oh op Flowers
I clicked on active threads hoping for a funny/happy/light hearted thread to show my dd 13 ... then I saw "on my knees tired" couldnt just read and fly ...all i can do is SALUTE you !. And Pass you some Gin & Cake xx
I hope you find something that helps,i personally would do all pp has advised and just see xx

SilverHairedCat · 24/02/2018 16:48

Yes, inhalers can act as a stimulant. I don't know the answer to that though - perhaps chat at the asthma clinic?

Would the doc consider prescribing something like melatonin to help her get her circadian rhythms into the right places?

minipie · 24/02/2018 16:48

Do you think she might be tired but not showing it in a sleepy way? DD is a terrible sleeper and I used to think she wasn't tired, because she was like a Duracell bunny, never sleepy, hyper in fact - but actually hyper is how she goes when tired and a lot of her behaviour (tantrums etc) was reflective of tiredness. We did get prescribed melatonin at age 4 and it's been amazing.

Original poster
ProperLittleMonkey · 24/02/2018 18:37

She's on the Orange Inhaler and the blue ventolin, but she only takes the blue one as required. The orange one is morning and evening.

I do think she is tired, she has to be. I can't make her bedtime earlier as I finish work at 4.30 and get her from Nursery at 5.15 but we walk home so often not in the door until 6/6.15pm.

She has a diagnosis of Global Developmental Delay with no underlying cause and asthma.

OP posts:
GandTforme · 24/02/2018 20:49

My mum always says my brother was like this, would just not sleep. As a pp has said mum found the only way to deal with it was earplugs and to put a gate across his door and let him get on with playing if he wanted to. He grew out of it.

Scotinoz · 24/02/2018 22:03

My eldest has never been a great sleeper, or seemed to need that much sleep. At 2 she'd long since dropped the day time nap, and after being put to bed at 7 and falling asleep around 9, could be awake for 3-4 hours during the night and then up again at 5. She was fresh as a daisy and raring to go, and like you I was on my knees (especially since we had a new baby too). Like yours, she was well exercised every day so her sleeping wasn't linked to lack of fresh air/activity.

I took her to the GP to see if she had a problem and rationally discussed drugging her (he advised against pheregan and we didn't try it). We lived overseas at the time and 'sleep school' was very popular, but during an initial assessment with them, they said all they'd do was put a gate on her bedroom door and recommend ignoring her during her.

The gate and ignoring was what we did. She was safe and quite happy playing with her toys at 1am.

Unfortunately I can't tell you we magically cured our kid, just say I really feel for you. Sleep deprivation is crippling and Iooking back, I'm amazed we got through the first 6months of a new baby and non sleeping toddler.

To give you hope, our kid got better around 3. At that age she understood a GroClock which bought us some sleep. And at 4, she's much better - she doesn't need as much sleep as her peers seem to, but is in bed at 7 (not asleep but looks at books quietly) and doesn't play for hours on end in the early hours.

Poshsausage · 25/02/2018 10:30

Could she have sleep onset disorder as part of autism or adhd which can come hand in hand with gdd ( I have two with autism one of whom has adhd sleep onset disorder) ? We got melatonin at 5 thankfully as he wasnt sleeping much before that ans often goes whole nights awake
We use repetitive audio CDs weighted blankets etc but it’s the melatonin which has helped us
Is she under a paed?

Original poster
ProperLittleMonkey · 25/02/2018 11:24

Under a paediatrician but she's too young to follow a pathway for diagnosis so he only sees her every 6 months, he'll start seeing her more when she's 4 because that's when we can start a diagnosis for Autism/ADHD/Dyspraxia etc

OP posts:
Poshsausage · 25/02/2018 11:26

That’s a shame we were diagnosed at 3 for my younger one if you’re concerned you can call and see if you can bump up the appointment. But there’s probably not a lot you can do you probably have all the sleep hygiene information etc and read up a lot as us mums do !

SagelyNodding · 25/02/2018 11:33

I'm no expert, but my paediatrician told me years ago that some kids are sensitive to vitamins especially vit C, and that they can act as a stimulant. Maybe try giving them in the morning rather than at bedtime?

minipie · 25/02/2018 12:19

Can you ask the paed to prescribe melatonin? Try to get the liquid (Kidnaps) rather than the tablets (Circadin) as circadin is slow release whereas kidnaps works very quickly.

If your paed refuses (but doesn't seem to have a good reason for refusing) - well I am hesitant to suggest this, but in your shoes I think I would try buying some child suitable melatonin online and giving it to her. In the usa it's available over the counter so various online companies will ship it from there. At her age the dose would be 1ml max I believe (DD age 5 is on 2ml max but we give less), liquid ideally as it works faster. It has really helped DD who just cannot "switch off" by herself. You might find that some of her other developmental concerns reduce or disappear if she gets more sleep, hence it seems worth trying before heading down a diagnosis pathway.

Poshsausage · 25/02/2018 12:30

I was really trying not to suggest the op got melatonin from the internet and medicated her daughter without medical supervision but there you go . Some people do . Make informed decisions as best you can . There are reasons doctors don’t prescribe this under a certain age so needs looking in to . I’ve read it effects hormones etc

smartiecake · 25/02/2018 12:53

Gosh that sounds so hard OP. My youngest has autism and i know that sleep issues is commin with that, possibly with GDD as well?
I also think you should keep a diary of her sleep (as much as you can) and either go through it with the paed or the GP. I dont know what the earliest age melatonin is prescribed but you will probably will need something like this as the sleep or lack of is part of her disabilities. She wont do it naturally she will need help.

Original poster
ProperLittleMonkey · 25/02/2018 13:08

I'm not comfortable medicating without the support of her paediatrician/GP, thank you for the suggestion though.

Not due to see the Paeds until June, I can't go on like this. I will try and ring him but when I've tried before the secretary won't put me through to him/get him to call me back.

OP posts:
minipie · 25/02/2018 13:51

Completely understand, it is a risky thing to do. I am influenced by how much of a game changer it was for DD, but she had it prescribed through her paediatrician so I didn't have to take that risk.

Do ask her paed about it though - does the paed know the full extent of her non sleeping?

minipie · 25/02/2018 13:52

Email might be a better option for contacting the paed or their secretary, I've found that to work better than phoning (if you can find an email address for them) Good luck