Moving to the States with children...cultural differences?

[Gem13]

There's a possibility that we will be moving to the States in a couple of months with DH's work. We've lived there before for short periods but that was pre-children and in a different city. This would be long term.

So, I was wondering if anyone had found it hard/easy meeting other mothers, going to toddler groups, etc. and if there was anything very different from the life they had here. For example the mothers I know here have similar attitudes towards feeding, discipline, etc.

We have a toddler and a baby.

Regarding church - it is a larger part of many people's lives in the American South than it is in the UK. In addition, to Sunday worship, many churches have activities throughout the week for members. There are some members who are devout, and there are others who keep their faith to themselves, and there are others who simply like the programs and facilities on offer (perhaps similar to the UK where people join a church in order to gain access to a good school for their child). So, it's not hard to be accepted if you don't go to church. But, many churches are active in the community should you wish to take advantage of what they offer.

For what it's worth, I periodically went to church (maybe once a month). It was a friendly group of people who made me feel welcome. DD enjoyed the children's activities. We even went to a church organised Easter Egg hunt once, and had alot of fun. There were invitations from members to more activities, but I never felt any pressure. I didn't take up any of the invitations, and there was never any bad feeling.

It sounds as if others here had more luck with toddler groups than I did. Hopefully that will be the case for you also, should you make the move.

In the US if you say you are weaning a baby you mean you are stopping breastfeeding, not that you are adding solid food. This can cause all sorts of confusion.

Children's clothing tends to be more formal in the South than in say California, but even in California relatively few babies wear onesies (which are babygros) alone outside the house after about 3 months. Mine does, but this is due to my Aussie husband.

Check out Baby Bargains for an interesting American discussion board. Because it is meant to be specifically about shopping, it has even more stuff-obsessed people than average, but they're very nice anyway, don't let the people who know every piece of clothing made by Gymboree put you off.

Dummies r also called "Binkies".

Earlybird -- people in the UK use reins on their kids when they go 2 a quiet city park! (I think it's OTT, too). In the USA I might use them in shopping malls or at the beach, anywhere busy.

Circumcision is less common in California, not least because of the majority non-white population there. My California boyfriends weren't snipped...I grew up (100% wasp family) being told "That's something Jewish people do" -- I only learnt on the Internet after I became a mom that it's near universal in much of USA.

I would add that American kids do seem to grow up more quickly which I think is partly because of the unbelievable commercialism targeted at them. It's virtually impossible to buy a toy or product (including nappies, snacks, etc) that doesn't have pics of some TV, cartoon or movie character on it.

I would also say that American kids are encouraged to be 'independent' and stand up for themselves (especially boys) at a much earlier age and in a way that would generally be considered unacceptable in the UK. It's a problem that I have when we go back where my friend's allow their children to snatch toys from DS, push in front of him, etc with the expectation that if he wants the toy he'll snatch it back or push them out of the way. DS was actually cheered once when he got so fed up with the snatching that he pushed another boy down. 'Thatta boy! Stand up for yourself.' Quite different.

I'm sure you'll be able to meet other moms with similiar approaches to raising children though. One of the nice things about America is the huge variety of people. Good luck to you!

I suggested to a very pregnant mother of an active toddler that reins might help. She said wistfully "Oh, I wish I could, it sounds like it would work well, but people just don't do that here." I tried pointing out that there were certainly American mothers on-line who did, but she didn't feel that was good enough. I would have used reins wihout a second thought (we were at a nice calm park, but the path is only a few feet from a lake).
Note that I am as American as they come.

When I was an ex-pat I found that the great thing was that all my quirks were just assumed to be because I was a foreigner. Here, people know I'm weird.

Anecdote about reins: I was at a 1-yr-old's bday party in Brooklyn, NY this morning. I asked the mumsall pretty progressiveif any of them used reins. They said, "What are reins?" I said, "You know, they look a little like a leash."

Silence.

Just like when I mentioned dummies at an NCT tea when I first moved to London.

Tex111, some of that stuff you mentioned about raising kids to stand up for themselves and not to share sounds like it might possibly be a "Texan" thing and probably not indicative of attitudes in other states. There's as much emphasis on sharing in the US as in the UK--read any parenting magazine, and that seems to come up frequently: teaching kids how to share, etc. But I can imagine that in Texas it might be different, as that fits certain ideas (right or wrong) I happen to have about Texas.

Right, MIT, about the word "toilet" being rude. You ask for the bathroom, never the toilet, or you'll get funny looks. (Unless you have a British accent, in which case you'll be forgiven for anything.)

And regarding the church-going question mentioned earlier. . .there are vastly diverse attitudes on church and religion all over the US. Maybe 1% of the Americans I know go to church at allvery, very rare in my circles. You can't really make generalizations about religion in the USthough I know the international media loves to focus on the Christian right. But MAYBE you could argue that attending church is commoner in the south than in other regions.

Zebra, I'm not sure about the casualness of dress thing. I can't say I've noticed a huge difference, but we're from different parts of the US, and also we live in dif parts of the UK. The kids around here in London dress v. casually, esp the boys--but you could be right, I'm just not sure. You are right, though, about babygros being a common gift from Americans.

It's strange about the reins. I suppose it makes sense in a way but I just took it for granted that when DS started to walk he would have reins on. Safety over liberty! He's usually very good about walking and holding hands but there are always those moments when his attention wanders...

maomao - where did/do your neices and nephews live? We would be looking in and around Atlanta and I'm trying to do some research on the different suburbs.

Good idea Earlybird about checking out the university towns/areas. I really liked Berkeley when we were in San Francisco and I wanted to go to Athens when I was a teenager (REM and the B52s) but I've just checked and it's 87 miles between the two

Gem13 - regarding universities in Atlanta.......I think Georgia Tech and Emory are both located in Atlanta. (It's University of Georgia located in Athens, btw.) I would ask around and see where the professors tend to live, and what schools they send their kids to. Emory in particular might be one to pursue as they have (or used to have) a good academic reputation and from memory I don't think they have a religious affiliation.

Will you have much (if any) support from dh's workplace for your relocation? Are there other ex-pats who have been transferred in to the Atlanta area who could give you some help/suggestions?

Will you be renting or buying a place to live? I ask because my cousin (an estate agent/realtor located in Tennessee) is quite often involved with helping "out of town" clients decide which area is right for them, and also helps research schools for their children. So, an estate agent can be a big help in sorting through the relocation maze, and often can be a huge resource for information. If you want me to, I can ask if she knows anyone in Atlanta that she'd recommend.

Expatkat, you could well be right about the independence thing being unique to Texas. It's certainly something we struggle with when we go back. Such a shock to DS. I guess that attitude could go a long way in explaining George W!

Earlybird - thanks for the offer of contacting your cousin. It's very early/might-not-happen days so I'll get back to you if it looks more likely. We're all going to go out and check the areas out first if there's a chance we could be moving. I don't want to sell up, move everything/ship it only to find out I hate it there.

We're getting more excited about the whole idea now, at first I wasn't really bothered but we have talked a lot about it and now it would be disappointing if it didn't happen.

Should know more in the next couple of weeks...

It is interesting to read this as an American! Reins are looked down upon where I am from, but recently when I was home have seen something similar that just goes around the wrist. Moving is hard where ever you go, I have been in London for more then a year and I have only made 1 friend who I feel is a "kindered spirit" iykwim. I discipline my children, and they are taught to share as are all of their friends.

The South is a very different place to the Northeast where I am from. I do not know any one who smacks there kids, who is strongly religious or who infact voted for.

Drinking around one's children is a little strange at home, I was shocked to see the head teacher drinking at the school fair! And to buy a bottle of wine at the zoo!

The one thing I would strongly advise is to check out the school situation before you go, and really know how it works. It is different in most areas, and good schools in cities are usually full so if you turn up midyear you will be put in the school that has space, and that could be the worst school. School doesn't start til 5 and in some places that is only 1/2 day. Also a lot of the toddler classes you have to pay for a whole semester(unlike in London where it is more of a drop in system.

How is the school year/age calculated generally in the US?

Here DS (July 02) will start school in Sept. 06 when he is just 4 as they begin in the year 1 Sept. til 31 Aug that they turn 5.

Where would I look for school information? We wouldn't move somewhere at this stage for the schools but as I am already aware of the ones I'd want him to go to here I should have the same knowledge before we moved.

That should have said I don't know anyone who voted for Bush!

Schools really vary by city or county, and I only know how schools in Boston work, there one must be 5 by September 1st. You apply for a lottery the Febuary before your child goes to school. You can put as many choices as you want but it is a convoluted system where the best schools fill up after the first round of the lottery, so when doing the lottery it really is a gamble to see if you will get what you want. Boston schools go by a rule where as each school must take 50% of kids who live within 1 mile of the school, the other 50% can come from anywhere in the city, including within a mile. Also in Boston Siblings have an atomatic right to go to school with siblings, so depending on the year there are less spots in a school as the siblings take up most of the spots.

Also in the States if a child seems "young"(or imature) it is totally okay to hold them back a year(a number of friends whose boys have summer birthdays have chosen to do this in the USA here I guess it is totally unheard of?)

But things are really different from one place to the next, my friend lives in a town outside of Boston and they have to have a spot for each child in the town, as it is a town where schools are very good they have had a huge influx of people with kids. So when my friend moved there kindergartens had 18 kids in each school(there are 6 schools) and now there are 26(which is a high number for students in kindergarten in the Boston area. So if I was moving to the Boston area with a child over the age of 5 I wouldn't consider the city of Boston but look for a town outside that had good schools which would make space for my child, iyswim!

Schools in the states are funded by property taxes, so places where property is more expensive have better school. And also in the States in those better areas there are fewer places to rent, most people own. This is not always true. Smaller towns and cities are usually better bets then city schools.

I am not sure how the schools work in Georgia. But I did a Google search for Georgia Public Schools(which is what state funded schools are called) and I found this

Also, there are schools in the states called Charter schools that are free, funded by tax dollars but one must apply for them directly and they each have different rules and again fill up pretty fast at the entry age and usually have waiting lists.

August24, I can so relate to your post having grown up in the Northeastern USA and moving to the South. It was a tremendous culture shock for me. I am not religious myself, but I live in the heart of the Baptist Bible Belt where folks don't let their kids out on Halloween to trick or treat because it is "of the devil"so many things to learn about what is "offensive". I shriek "Oh My God!" for just about any reason (which I thought was better than Holy Sh!), I have gotten into trouble at the office when blurting out the word JESUS... but you find your niche somehow...I hope that you continue to make friends, I love it whenever I come and visit.

Gem: I think living near the University is a great idea if you can find something there, a real estate agent is the best idea and you will find the better schools are where the more expensive homes are (usually). When you work with the agent, you can ask about the schools before you even view the properties. Here in Florida they are given a rating each year. Our taxes are a bit higher, but we are in an A-rated school district with the elementary, middle and high school have all received an A rating. There is also a ton of information on the web that you can look at before hand just by putting the city and state into Google. Good luck!

Thanks august24 for the information about the school system. I have been having a really interesting time checking out the different elementary schools while DH is nagging me to check out how we would be affected finacially by the move if/when we returned to the UK, i.e. our standing with future university fees, state pensions, etc.!

I'm always amazed by the amount of information you can get on the net for places in the US. I've been able to see what kindergarteners should have with them - Elmer's school glue, 8 large crayons...

And I've been able to check out the entertainment rating of the playground in the 'local' park!

There is so much to think about it's a welcome relief to look at the more trivial things!

I'm not so sure about the religiousness of the South but I would hope to do as Earlybird did and take people for their friendliness. Would have to watch my language though sunchowder. The occasional 'Oh God!' has been known to slip out.

one I thing I've just remembered about the USA - DON'T DRINK ORDINARY MILK.

Cattle in the USA are fed levels of hormones and antibiotics that are illegal in both Canada and the EU. There was a fuss about it a couple of years ago, but the government hushed it up.

All my UK friends living in USA drink organic milk.

Funny about the Oh My God. My best friend is English, living in New York and she commented when her child started talking that she had to stop saying Oh My God as her mother (english) would be offended hearing her ds say that.

McLaren buggies are all the rage but they are SO expensive. I feel pretty smug having bought my in the UK and paid half what everyone there has paid. (That said, I accidentally left my buggy at my parents' house in the US and am now back in London buggy-less. How stupid is that .)

And I don't know if any other Americans agree with me on this, but I feel as though it'sslightly more difficult to go to an ordinary supermarket and find healthy, nutritious food to stock a house with. The temptations of short-cuts and processed foods/snacks is just too great, even for someone like me who is pretty committed to eating well. I sometimes wonder if it's just me, thoughif I habitually seek out the junk food my mom fed me ongrilled cheese sandwiches with processed kraft; Eggo frozen waffles; white Wonder-style bread. I mean, you CAN get good things, but it feels like so much effort of sorting through crap. Lots of crap here too, of course, but seems like another level over there. You can usually go to what's called a "health food store"but they tend to be very expensive and don't always exist, depending on where you live. And they tend to be very much on the other end of the spectrumsometimes just a bit too seriously healthy. But I suppose it makes sense to use both.

Expatkat, I would agree with you about the grocery shopping. A heavily processed diet does seem to be the norm in the US. I find I read labels much more when we're there than I do here as even 'healthy' foods like granola bars can have trans fats, high fructose corn syrup, etc. Produce is not of the same quality as in the UK either but most areas will have a farmer's market when you can get good fruit and veg. I think there is a movement to improve the American diet but it's happening slowly. I know in Texas there's a new chain of grocery stores called Central Market (owned by HEB) and they have really excellent quality food, use local farmers as much as possible and have tons of imported food so you could still get your Hobnobs and PG Tips... but it is expensive. Perhaps as an expat it won't seem as expensive though. If you're still paid in Sterling the exchange rate will be fantastic for you.

SueW - cmon.......I hope youre exaggerating! There definitely is much more of a gun culture in America - especially in more rural areas where fathers/sons go hunting together....but I`ve never heard anyone talk about having an Uzi!

Also, don`t think people would react much to an "oh my god", though in some circles you'd get a flinch if you exclaimed "Jesus!"

Agree with expatkat about supermarket shopping - much more convenience food, but not necessarily the healthiest way to eat. There is a wonderful chain of food stores called "Wild Oats" where you can get good organic meat/veg. They also have a decent cheese section....which is not so easy to find in many parts of the USA. And while we're speaking of food, you'll miss the high quality of M&S readymeals if you're a fan!

Again it must be an East Coast/London thing but I disagree about the groceries. While I agree about the avalability of fresh fruits and vegs is much better in London, there are things I really miss from home. For my husband and I, I miss the Italian food section of my grocery store where I can get olives,artichokes, 4 different types of pesto, orzo and so much more that makes my meals quick and easy. For my children, I struggle to find healthy snacks here in London, 100% juice is very hard to find, and expensive. My kids are snackers, and I find snack options here are either non-existent or else very costly. At home we have a place called Trader Joe's where I get all sorts of great, healthy snacks like dried fruits,frozen fruit and vegtables, good cereal, whole wheat crackers, cheeses etc and it is very inexpensive. At home(again where I am from) schools are very strict on what kids bring for lunch, and it is looked down upon to bring crisps, and cookies and cakes. At the beginning of most school years there is a letter that goes home that says what to bring for lucnh, and even how to pack it. It has gotten to the point on Birthdays people will bring in muffins or fruit instead of Cake. I like that here most people still love dessert, and even the crunchy hippy school we were at here in London, it was organic this and that but come a birthday the parent would bring in a big fat white sugar based cake! Also here the selection of ready to eat fresh meals is astounding, we don't have anything like those where I am from, only gross frozen food. The other thing I was shocked about here is the amount of plastic packaging and the fact that where I live in London it isn't recycled. I have been recyling plastic in the States since I was a teenager!

The best part of food options here in London is all the vegetarian options and the fact that everything is clearly labeled if it is vegetarian and if it has things that one could be allergic to. I am surprised they don't do this in the states, as most schools there also ban certain foods like peanuts if a child is allergic to them

Sorry Earlybird, I have to agree with SueW about the guns. It's one of the big reasons why I don't think we'll ever move back. I am from Texas where it's probably a bit more extreme than other parts of the States but I know plenty of people who own sub-machine guns for 'sport' and going out in the woods to shoot after lunch would be totally normal.

As for the 'Oh god' thing, I was told off frequently growing up for 'taking the Lord's name in vain' but it doesn't seem to be quite that extreme these days. Saying 'God damn' is another story! That's even worse than using the F word. I remember DH (who's English) saying 'God damn' once at my parents' house and there were sharp intakes of breath all around.