My son has no friends

[lifesteeth]

My son (8) has no friends at school, ever since he started the nursery at 3 he was excluded from the boys' social circles but I thought things would change as they got older. They havn't however and now even the kids that my DS consider to be "friends" refuse to play with him, tell him to "go away" or simply run away from him when he approaches them. I have no idea why he is treat like this, he's not a 'laddish' boy so maybe this all they need to exclude him but his school life is resembling mine so much that I'm starting to find it all very upsetting.

All the school say is "we can't force the others to play with him" etc...today at break time he walked around the playground on his own and at dinner time he did the same occasionally running over to play with people who then ran away or ignored him.

What can I do if anything? is this likely to continue all through school? will it change when they hit seniors or get worse??

lifesteeth.
Are you taking ds word for the fact that children run away from him or do you go and watch?

near southport....but I havn't managed to stalk lulu yet.

apparently she likes coming to the seaside every now and again....

The school sound very unsupportive.
I would look into other schools in the area.
It is not necessarily the case that a child who is bullied in one school setting will be bullied at another.
He needs to be taken out of this current environment as it will be very damaging to his self-esteem.

What a depressing post about the head at your DS's school 3LF

lifesteeth - I'm dreading this happening with DS. He's only 5 but already I can see that he's not making connections with the other boys like they are with each other. He's regualrly coming home and saying 'I had no-one to play with today', 'X wouldn't let me join in', 'B told me to go away', 'J said I couldn't sit next to him' etc, and it really breaks my heart.

I've spoken to his teacher and she says that it's normal, happens to them all and that he'll find his niche. I know this isn't true when I see him approach groups of boys in the playground and they turn away from him or ignore him. I can see that it hurts him but like you I'm at a loss to know how to help. At 5 I don't think it's about being spiteful, more that the boys don't really like him and don't care or realise that their actions are hurtful. At 8 I think it's more deliberate and bullyish.

I can see why my DS doesn't fit in. Like you, I always make sure that he's wearing good clothes (nothing that makes him stand out for good or bad reasons), has a PS2 (sorry MN), goes to the cinema, watches football and is into everything else that they're into. But...he's not laddish or rough like the other boys. He cries easily, will tell the teacher if someone is being naughty (stupid things like not crossing their legs in assembly ), and he tends to be a bit controlling and bossy. I should probably mention that he has a diagnosis of Autistic Spectrum Disorder so he can't really help doing these things. So he's not fitting in for different reasons to your DS.

My ex-p's mother works at the school and I get reports every day that he's spent the whole lunch hour standing at the friendship stop waiting for someone to play with .

So sorry for you and your DS. I think I would take him out of the school before you move if it's an option. I think you'd probably recognise it yourself if he was doing something to make himself unpopular at the school, so it's probably very likely that he's just a nice lad amongst a bunch of unpleasant bullys.

Really hope things change when he goes to his next school.

lifesteeth, I feel so sad for you and your son. I have been where you are - one of my sons had no friends for about 4 years at school. He is intellectual and not into football or any sport, and also, as the oldest in a family of four children, he was quite bossy (at least, I used to hear from other children that he was bossy) yet at the same time he was (still is) less mature than children his age. I remember once working in his school as a supply teacher, and looking out the window at playtime to see who he was playing with and I saw him wandering the playground alone. It is an image that will stay with me forever I think, I was so sad to see him alone like that, and it is the same image of your son wadnering the playground alone that upsets me now.

The good news for you though, is that we moved when ds1 was in Year 4 (he is now in Year 6) and his situation instantly improved. He straightaway fitted in with the boys in the new school - they seemed to play tag more than football so ds1 was able to join in - and he now has a number of firm friends. As he got older, he developed other interests so he had things in common with the boys, eg gameboys, Pokemon, Dr Who, computer games (mainly Runescape), chess, The Simpsons, Futurama, etc. It is wonderful now to see him going off to call on friends or having friends call on him, and he is always swapping telephone numbers or email addresses with them.

All of this may well happen to your son, who, it sounds to me, is unlucky in that he is in with a group of horrid boys. (Unfortunately, I know about this still as ds2 was the opposite of ds1: popular at the old school but now in with a group who do nothing but taunt him for his intellectual superiority and all his emotional failings. He is in Year 4 and I can't wait for him to finish primary and go to secondary so that he can get away from the little twerps.)

i really feel your you lifesteeth but do feel that a lot of the advice on this thread is a little geared toward changing your son.
in my book you need to try to change others' attitude toward him. He is who he is and what he needs to learn is how to 'adapt' his behaviour to suit other children but not change what he is about
i know it hurts when you see your child is not in the 'inner circle' but these things change - childhood friendships are very fluid and children themselves are very fickle
i would concentrate on positive affirmation at home and teaching your little boy how to join in on the periphery.
If you intrinsicly (sp) unhappy with school then try to move him but 3 terms goes fast and if he is going to move in a year anyway....
As children get older they suddenly want to be 'different' its cool....my daughter (12) refers to people as 'sheep' as an insult . Do not dampen your sons individuality...do what you feel is best .x

Not all schools are the same and some have a much better social environment than others. I feel this school is not doing its job if it allows him to be bullied like this. As has already been said, in another school he may bond well with another child or even group of children. My Ds first school had a fantastic environment, all children accepted, even the less boyish boys, and boys and girls played together - fairly small village school. The new school is less so, but even so I don't think people get left out like this. I would definitely look to change. Only word of caution - as someone else has said, is he like this in other environments, clubs etc - if so then perhaps there is a problem with his social skills and as a start I would speak to school nurse or health visitor to find out where you can get some further help.

Poor kid - it makes you feel so helpless doesn't it? I know someone else has mentioned it, but have you tried cubs? Lots of organised activities means they don't tend to get too cliquey.

Message withdrawn

Chelseadagger that bit about yr DS at the friendship stop made me cry.

Why oh why are kids so mean? Mine don't all have stacks of friends, esp DS1 who is shy and not very confident, but I alwyas tell them to go and play with anyone who I know to be similar - take them by the hand and help them.

Sigh. Lifesteeth not sure what more you can do. Certainly the culture of the school sounds unhelpful. What does yr DS say about all this?

I think that the primary school sounds awful.

"All the school say is "we can't force the others to play with him" etc...today at break time he walked around the playground on his own and at dinner time he did the same occasionally running over to play with people who then ran away or ignored him."

The school is lazy and obviously doesnt teach PHSE very well. There are ways of improving the situation and the teacher are just too lazy to do anything. Teaching social skills is as much of the curriculum as numeracy or literacy.

At my son's school there are children who are pointed as playground monitiors. Its their job to look after anyone who is lonely. The children see this job as a privilage and take it very seriously.

Excluding children from games is considered bullying and any school worth its salt should have dealing with that as part of its anti-bullying policy.

Although the more experience I have with schools, the more I suspect that anti-bullying policiies are simply bits of paper they have to produce for OFSTED, rather than actual policies.

I'd make them explain why they aren't dealing with this form of bullying effectively and are offering you a lame excuse instead. Take it to the governors if you get no joy from the headteacher.

I don't have much by way of advice to give you but 2 comments:

1. I worry about my son's social skills and have posted similar converns to you on here. I remain of the view that it is a problem, but in many ways think it makes me unhappier than it does him and my husband and others have a totally different take on the situation to me. Is your son upset by this?

1. Part of the reason my son's exclusion concerns me is that I see my ownh history repeating itself. I have spent all my life feeling I am on the outside of things and never been welcomed in to groups (still feel this). However, from about the age of 12, I deliberately sought out other shy/awkward people and throughout my life since, have had few but very rewarding friendships. Are there any other children in the same position as your son who he could target for friendship?

lifesteeth, for what it's worth I just wanted to say my heart goes out to you and your ds. I have nothing more to add than has already been posted. It is so difficult and as one has already said, it may be just one ringleader that is causing this. As for the school, I just cannot understand teachers/heads it's as if they were never at school, as if they were never little themselves. One thought as I write, can you possibly help out in school, do they ask for people to go in and listen to children reading, etc. Maybe this way you could be around to see what is happening ie how the others relate to your son. Sometimes, I hate to say this but sometimes this makes the other children pay attention to your own as you are around and they have to call you "Mrs..." and then this can make your child one that the others want to be with, as your child is one of the special ones that gets their parent coming in to help at school.

Sorry I made you cry Clary .

chealsedagger you have just had me with tears in my eyes as well. why the hell do the teachers not do something if your poor ds is standing in the friendship area for so long on his own, it makes me so mad!!!!

lifesteeth did you not make a post before about your son having a crush on a girl in his class and the girl finding it a bit full on???? i cant remember here being any mention of bullying in that thread but that was a while ago i think. could there be any connection? has this girl maybe made things difficult for your ds or perhaps he does get to attached to some children in his class and it frightens them of a bit?? only a suggestion.

nochelseadagger, it's your son I am for.

Why wouldn't someone come to his rescue? There must have been someone (an adult I mean) on the playground, even if they just walked around holdign his hand.

Thanks both of you. Obviously it's not nice to make people cry, but it is kind of heartwarming that some people care. I really wish that some of the other mums had so much sympathy that they might just ask their children to say hello back to DS. Obviously they can't help what happens during the day, but it's not much to expect in the morning, I don't think.

To be fair to the staff they do try and get other kids to play with DS but just like LifesTeeth said, the others just run away again. I wish I didn't know about it really because there's so little I can do but it's so upsetting.

Sorry for hijack LT. I really hope this can be sorted for you both when he changes schools. Poor lad

Thanks for all the replies. My son was the one with the crush...the girl has now decided he is not her friend and has "dumped" him again, she does this every now and again, one minute she's his "best friend" and I suspect this is just to annoy her other friend when they fall out then when they make up again she more or less tells my son to "get lost" until she needs him again.

Anyway I went into the school this morning, told the head how unhappy my son was, how he wants to move school and how I think its beyond a joke when a child is getting hit DURING CLASS. She more or less said moving schools would just make the problem worse as the bullying would follow him, she said its his personality that needs to be looked at (as well as the bullying). I asked if they had any groups that could help him and she has directed me to the school councellor (seperate thread about this in a minute!).

I can sort of see where she is coming from, its not just kids at school that he doesnt get on with its kids in general, I started letting him play out down the street and within days he was being bullied by the local kids (different school to his). I watch him playing out of the window and he acts so differently to them, they tell him to f* off and he replies with "why don't you shut up?" which doesnt sound like a big deal but they find it hilarious that he's "posh" (we're not at all but he does put on a posh accent sometimes and I have no idea why) when other kids his age say "dunno..." he says "I have no clue" etc....other silly things like he walks differently to other kids (the others say he's camp), he can't 'do' sports, if someone pulls at him he falls on the floor voluntarily and laughs even though the others are laughing AT him, not with him.

Anyway the youth worker phoned me at work today to say she'd been watching him playing out and he had another incident with a kid today who wouldn't let him play football, she said my son has a tendancy to get upset extremeley quickly and sometimes takes things the wrong way (for instance a kid today told him they had won 3-1 and my son spun around and told him to shut his gob!). She said it best that we work with him to "develop" his personality before he hits secondry school or he will have a life of hell .

Oh poor you . I've got tears in my eyes too now. You must be reeling.

I'll look out for your thread about the school councillor. It's incredibly insensitive to say that his personality needs to be looked at, I?m sure she could have dealt with this more gently. It does sound like he might have the same problems elsewhere but for heaven sake, what are they doing to help?

Do you live in quite a rough area? We do and I think it can make things much harder for a boy with a sensitive nature. Bless his heart about the crush on the little girl.

You sound like you've had an awful day. I'm so sorry

make the wonder your poor ds gets easily upset!!! maybe if you can sort of see where the teachers are coming from in respect to your son not getting on with kids in general then it might be a step in the right direction. hopefully things will start to get better!!!!!

Your poor son. If he is being bullied I would certainly move him as soon as possible. The school is not dealing with it.

His self esteem will be low so he probably needs some help with that, and some coaching on how not to be bullied. Have you read any books on bullying to try to help him?

I have been bullied before at work as an adult, although not at school. It is frankly immensely debilitating and miserable but it doesn't have to be the future as well as the past for your son and anyone who tells you this is his inevitable future is WRONG.