Having difficulties with DD, advice needed please. Reaching the end of my tether

[hereagain99]

DD is 8 years old and in a way she has always being a difficult child at home. I separated from her dad when she was just over 1year old, she doesn't remember us living with her dad, and we have lived with my DP for almost 6 years. She has always had a good relationship with DP even when her dad hasn't said very nice things about DP (which has been since day 1).

We have had a massive argument and I am getting to the point where I am tired of bringing up a person that is unrespectful towards us and is always shouting to us and argumentative for everything literally. The few times when I have raised her behaviour issues with her dad he has been unsupportive as usual. DD has always used the "I hate living in here, I want to go to live with my daddy" argument, which is completely normal from separated children. 3 years ago she called him and told him that she wanted to go and live with him and he said that it was impossible after she had a meltdown from coming back to visit him after school holiday. She has done it again but this time she has said that she needs to go to calm down with him and when she is ready to come back. He lives 4 hours drive from us. I told her that if she was going with her dad it wasn't for a holiday but permanently as I am fed up with her being unrespectful and rude with us and lovely with everyone else. It is clear that the issue is here and we do not know what else to do. We both work in education so we have tried different approaches to improve the situation and nothing has worked or even made the slight less difference to her choice of behaviour.

I have spoken with her school in several occasions and requested to refer her to the ELSA but they always say no as she has excellent behaviour in school and is a model student (we must be doing something right after all). We don't know what to do, I only know that I am at the end of my tether and I am not willing to carry on like this for years to come.

Is there any advice you could give us please? I have requested another meeting with her teacher to see if she can be referred to the ELSA again but I am not hopeful that the school will do anything about as it doesn't have an effect in school. So any help would be much appreciated.

Thanks in advance and sorry for long post.

You have my sympathy as the parent of an eight and seven year old. My eight year old at the moment is rude and grumpy. She used to be a very happy child. She’s always lived with me and her dad. She does have two siblings with autism so I know that has an impact and I’ve asked her numerous times why she’s so unhappy and don’t ever really get an answer. She’s emotional and tearful too. I keep telling myself it’s an age thing. Consistent boundaries and lots of love and patience. Good luck.

She’s 8?

You said I told her that if she was going with her dad it wasn't for a holiday but permanently as I am fed up with her being unrespectful and rude with us and lovely with everyone else

To an 8 year old?

I wonder if part of her behaviour is expectations and not fully understanding why she behaves as she does. My 8 year old can be quite tempestuous when he’s tired or upset and can’t articulate himself properly.

What exactly is her behaviour? Given she’s good at school, then some of it will be how you are reacting to her and your expectations of what she should do are.

Read “Mercury’s Child” by Warwick Dyer. It will clear your mind totally.

My dd sounds very like yours but is 12 now. At 8 she was a nightmare at home and an absolute angel anywhere else. I think it’s the hormones starting to kick in. Also friendships become trickier and they can be really nasty to each other. The parenting differences between you and her dad - you say he’s unsupportive - won’t help her to feel secure. I always tried to see it that she knew she was safe to kick off at home because she absolutely knows I will love her no matter what and will never send her away. I know it doesn’t really help right now but my dd became much more human at home when she hit 11. She still has her moments but we can talk about it afterwards and she usually has an explanation for why it happened.
Good luck, it’s not easy.

Im an ELSA and always try and help children with home situations as well as school stuff. Its the whole picture. Best of luck

If school see no problems, could you go to a private Ed Psych and ask for an assessment?
It may be that she's using all her energy to keep within expected behaviours at school and has to let all the anxiety and tension go when she's in her safe space, i.e. at home.

Also if she's argumentative or oppositional about everything at home, maybe change the way you ask her to do things, to remove her opportunity to argue.
Some ideas here
www.pdasociety.org.uk/families/strategies

You seem to be talking about her and treating her as if she is 14, not 8.

ELSA is irrelevant I’m afraid this is all about the private family dynamics between you you ex and her, nothing to do with any sort of medical or school related behavioural problems.

If you do actually care perhaps you can go to family counselling to help unravel what is going on between you - you almost certainly won’t be able to communicate adequately with her yourself to get to the bottom of her complex feelings.

All children hate andbhave great difficulty with divorced parents - that’s just the massive guilt you have to carry I’m afriad. It sounds here like she feels unloved by her father and is trying to bring about a scenario where he has to show her some love and commitment but of course he isn’t, and unfortunately because you are there to pick up the pieces she takes it out on you.

I think it’s best not to treat parenting as a position of superiority where the child exists to pay homage to you and respect you - that’s very unrealistic and you seem preoccupied by how much she reveres and loooks up to you, rather than focusing on supporting and loving her. Does part of you fear that she thinks you are a bit of a twat and a loser for failing to have a successful relationship with her father?

These are just some ideas to help you try to unpick the situation you are both in. I do recommmend seeking some family therapy with her and you to help her unpick her feelings and to identify what you might be doing that makes her feel unloved or unwanted.

Remember if you are going toe to toe in arguments with her then you arcan screwing up - she is 8, it is incumbent on you to be the adult.

Finally why can’t she spend some time with other her father without living with her forever? Sounds like you are saying ‘you can love me or him - pick one’. That is game playing from you and very unhelpful.

Worth sorting this out before she ends up in a crack den and a prostitute. That’s the end game isn’t it?

Have you read 'how to talk so kids will listen (and listen so kids will talk'? I am really not a big fan of parenting books in general but that one is brilliant and I think might have a lot of useful strategies for you to try, to help shift the dynamic you and your daughter have ended up in.

I think I'd be doing (or at least aiming for!) a lot of calm acknowledgement of her feelings ("wow - you're really angry about x"): I've found I learn much more about what's really going on, and DS gets a chance to calm down, if I find a way to listen and let him tell me about it, without asking lots of questions or trying to fix it or justify myself to him or focus on my immediate urge to get him to shut up and behave, rather than long term harmony and understanding.

Eight is really really young still. It sounds so hard for you ATM but you need to find a way to help her cope with her feelings before you can expect them to disappear so that her behaviour magically improves - which is what it sounds like you're currently hoping for.

I am getting to the point where I am tired of bringing up a person that is unrespectful towards us and is always shouting to us and argumentative for everything literally.

She's 8. There's many more years to go yet. My dd is very challenging and has autism but I have never felt like you do. Sad and stressed, sometimes angry, sometimes tearful, sometimes worn out but I have never thought that I am tired of bringing her up. You sound like you know you've got the option to get rid of her to her Dad and you just want to give up.

My daughter is a model student too, at home she loses it and meltdown and is just awful to us, but she can't help it. I think you need to be more forceful in looking for some help for her. I had to really push for help for my dd, because she was so quiet acquiescent at school they simply didn't believe me, it's common is children with behavioural issues and/or spectrum conditions.

She's only 8 !

And to be honest, she sounds perfectly normal to me. She is a model student because you clearly have been doing it mostly right.
At home she's pushing boundaries and lashing out because she feels safe enough to do so at home which is good too.

But why should she respect someone who is trying to bully her? And she's at home, not at school, so she allowed to let her hair down & not be perfect.

Thank you ladies for all your replies, we have some thinking to do.

@Cauliflowersqueeze we have bought the book so we will look at it when it arrives although DP has got the kindle version and has started to read it. I prefer the book in my hand so I can make notes and mark pages, old school

@NellWilsonWhiteHair we have the book and read a very long time ago and we have always use it. I may have to read again and see if I may have forgotten some bits

@MsGameandWatching I work in a special needs school so I completely understand what you are saying. We used lots of the strategies I use at work to minimise conflict but lately it doesn't seem to be working

@KimmySchmidt1 unfortunately due to distance it is not viable for her to go and spend time with her dad whenever she fancies. There are four hours drive to his house and four hours drive back to ours. She already spends most of the school holidays with him except for the summer holidays so it would be very difficult to do it. On top of that transitioning from his house to ours has always been a struggle and more after Christmas which it is the case again this time.

I had a chat with her dad about her behaviour lately but as usual he is not very helpful and excuses DD's behaviour. Again we will have to do it on our own which doesn't help as in a way DD takes advantage of the situation.

She is well aware that she says hurtful things when she is angry and she doesn't mean it and this has caused lots of conflict between her dad and us. Hopefully as she gets older she may be able to understand the consequences that her actions have in all of us (including her dad) and decide to do something about it, may be even stop it , wishful thinking face.

I know that she feels secure here and she displays certain behaviour in here that otherwise she would not do anywhere else. However sometimes it gets too much and it is difficult to deal with it .

Thank you again