'Tarquin's a free-spirit.' No he's not he's a PITA.

[Bubble99]

I wouldn't class my parenting as Victorian, but this (or similar) always seems to be uttered by the parent of the child who is running amok and causing mayhem. Have you ever found yourself looking at the mother/father and thinking 'are you going to tell him to stop that/put the weapon down/keep the noise down?

I don't think I'm a particularly stern parent, I like noise and chatter, which is probably a good thing as I have 4 boys, but this kind of thing P's me off.

I remember the people who lived in the flat below us had a toddler who was being brought up without hearing the word no - the first time we met him he was wandering around with a beer can upside down & dribbling Carlsberg onto the carpet.

Apparently they didn't say no even if he was doing/about to do something dangerous, like sticking his fingers in an eletric socket.
Dh mentioned that he'd done this once when he was about that age. The mum looked at DH standing there in front of her and said "Oh - you weren't killed then?...."
I don't think they were too bright.

I must lead a sheltered life.

I have never ever, met a parent who believes their badly behaved child is a free spirit.

On the contrary, the most badly behaved children I have met, are those who are shouted at and told to do what they're effing well told or I'll clout you one.

Cali. I s'pose it comes down to how we define 'anti-social behaviour.'

I find the Steinerish, lentil lot worse, in some ways, than the 'I'll effing well clout you one' posse.

And as for this not saying 'no' to a child nonsense. What's that all about?

I think 'no' is over-used. But to never say it? Distraction can only do so much..

I pick my battles carefully (most do, I know) and ds runs around and yells more at home in the privacy of our walls than I would let him elsewhere...golden rule, whatever your thoughts on free expression, never let your child piss anyone else off. Annoys the hell out of me when people in planes let their toddler swing their legs repeatedly against other passengers' seats then shrug their shoulders in response to glares and requests for control. On planes especially you pick battles carefully and a little lleway usually makes for a less fraught journey (have witnessed a family trying to insist on the naughty step during a 3 hour flight, mum was nearly insane by the time we touched down, daughter was completely confused and dad was hiding in his newspaper clearly hoping for the ground to swallow him up!)...but pissing off other people is not negotiable.

oops leeway

and anyway (settles into soapbox mode) freedom of expression needs to include boundaries, how do you know you're having a treat if it's what you get every day? And boundaries are what help you understand and learn social skills and learn about self control and self awareness, no?

I agree with Caligula. I don't think in all my years of being a parent and mixing with other parents (I will include nine years of step-parenting in this) have seen this without very mitigating circumstances - ie my friend whose first baby died at birth and found it almost impossible to tell off her next child. Of course there are children I don't like, and I have seen horrid behaviour, but either the parents genuinely don't notice (I am pretty sensitive to stuff around ds as he has Aspergers), are mortified, or are Primark parents - 'f**cking stop that or I'll batter you, you little sod '

The latter group are the real menace imo.

Oh thank God for this thread!
I particularly recognise the "He's shy" comment when the child is just rude - a friend's child is "too shy" to thank people for presents but yet dominates the playground. Another classic is "he has a strong personality" - yes, but so did all the world's "great" dictators. Obviously my own children are just perfect in every way .

Ah, now, something about this type of parenting brings out the worst in me.

If someone tells me their destructive 6 year old is a free spirit, I am very likely to put my special 'dim face' on and say "Gosh, that's a good way of saying naughty, I'll try that!"

Maybe I've just led a very sheltered life or something!

the don't say No thing has got so warped it is unreal it was meantto be that you did not say no but found a more positive way of admonishing children, or to explain way the action was dangerous. not just give them free rein

Also indigo and crystal children seem to have been simarily jumped on as a reason not to 'parent'children

It's a way of dealing with those very very very sensitive children that sometimes crop up, but the problem is, everyone thinks their own child is special.

hmm... my dd1, just 5, sometimes can be 'rude' eg occassionally refusing to say thankyou or goodbye. i do take her to task over this, but smile and say 'social skills arent a forte at this age'- usually helps diffuse the situation. at this young age, i think that to say they are 'rude' is a bit harsh.

ps she will usually say please, thankyou etc without prompting, but when i have to remind her, she sometimes goes quiet, out of embarrassment. is that the same as 'rudeness'?