Friend said she doesn't want to be the primary parent for her 4yo

[beingsunny]

Hi I'm looking for some advice, I have a friend who seperated from her husband around four months ago.

They are now living separately and she is still in the (rented) family home until January when she will move in with her father.

We spoke on the phone yesterday and she said her exh has offered to take their DD and not ask her for child maintenance and she can see her every other weekend.

She plans to move close to where I live as does her sister, which is an hour away from her DD.

I was quite shocked that she could think of doing this, I'm divorced myself with a similar aged child who I have 60/40 care with his father (mines the 60) I know how much I struggled having 2/3 days a week away from him.

Anyway, we are spending Christmas together and she wants to talk it through, how can I be supportive and ask the right questions without her feeling judged or unsupported?

I think at this age it's a huge gap of time for them. To go a good ten days without seeing one parent, mother or father.

I'm also worried this may seem too daunting and when she is on her feet and realises she can manage it will be too late and he would certainly not be a person to say oh ok, let's go 50/50. They may then end up in court which is very expensive and can be dragged on for years.

I think I will just go down the road of don't make any hasty decisions, she is currently working part time but expects to need to go full time next year, I think she is just overwhelmed at the prospect of juggling.

You don't have to have all the answers - it's fine to say you aren't sure what to advise because your setup is different. She probably just needs space to air all her thoughts, which you can do without advocating any particular course of action.

When my parents split we went through several different residency arrangements before finding one that worked. If the goodwill is there with her ex it might be best for everyone if they can stay flexible and keep talking and reviewing through the coming months to find the optimum scenario for their daughter.

At four? No, the parents need to make the decision. Don't ask the four year old. She will likely already feel on some level responsible, don't exacerbate that by giving her the illusion of choice.

I would want to know that any parent was making an active decision in the best interests of their child rather than feeling they had no other choice.

For example;

Has she been left with no income, no home, so reluctantly can’t see how she could manage, whilst the other parent has money?

Has she been manoeuvred into believing she wouldn’t get residency because he did more bedtimes / she had PND / whatever

Is she so broken down by the break up that she has lost all confidence?

Of course a loving parent is just that, Mum or Dad, and that’s fine, but to move an hour away seems a bit ‘disassociated ‘ or something I can’t quite find the right word for.

Has she always seen the Dad as the primary carer, or has this scenario emerged since the split?

At four? No, the parents need to make the decision. Don't ask the four year old. She will likely already feel on some level responsible, don't exacerbate that by giving her the illusion of choice.

Absolutely. Give them a chance to talk about their feelings - but not to have any input to decisions.

The year I left my husband I felt like I was a useless person and mother and my DC would be better with my ex. I was very very low. But I'm glad I hung on and had support (therapy - and actually MN too) helping me see how I could be a good mother. I'm not perfect by any stretch but I as so appreciative that someone was there to care about me - and my DC. So I guess I'm less sure about her decision being a confident valid one, and wonder how low she is just now.

I would want to know what the reason was for the split.
As I am getting the impression that the dh in this case is a little too controlling.

When you say the dh did the lion share of childcare how did this come about.
I have seen women who have handed most of the child rearing over to their husbands because the husband has criticised everything the mother did until she lost her confidence and left it all up to the father.

Saying that he will take the child and her not to pay maintenance make me feel uneasy.

She did have PND after her birth, she struggled for the first year or two but has begun to really enjoy parenting. He is quite high energy so needs less sleep etc so picked up al lot of the work.

I worry that it's more about lack of confidence in her new situation as opposed to what she wants.

She works in a reasonably well paid job with flexibility, part time since her DD was born but has made enquirers and has the option to increase her days.

The split was fairly amicable and she says a long time coming, I think money has always been tight but nobody was ever left without.

From a different perspective, at the 4 month part of the break up with the ex, I was very close to handing him the children and walking away. This wasn’t because I didn’t want the care of them, it was because my ex was relentless in his abuse of me and I just wanted it to stop. He wanted the children so logic dictates it would stop if he had the children.

Your friend needs to be aware of the legal implications of such a move - after even a short period of time, a court would unlikely rule in favour of her being resident parent again so if after a year she were to realise it was a big mistake, it would probably be irreversible unless the ex were to agree. The ex could also make choices to move further away - even abroad - and there wouldn’t be much she could do about it.

You said her exh has offered to take their DD and not ask her for child maintenance and she can see her every other weekend which rings alarm bells for me (but could just be your wording). Firstly, he doesn’t get to ‘take’ a child. It should be a joint decision. He can apply to the CMS for maintenance at any time - he may never ask but there is no legal comeback (you can’t ‘clean break’ your children). And she should want to support her child anyway because that’s the right thing to do.

I would urge you be non judgemental but also arm yourself with some facts about the situation and what could happen. A half hour with a solicitor would also be worth the money.

I shall rephrase my question: have either of them given any consideration to how this will effect the child? Because at the moment it seems to be all about what the parents want. I can't imagine any child wouldn't be badly affected by suddenly only seeing their mum once a fortnight.

This is really helpful, you have all made some really good points and I appreciate all your input.

I too would be worried she may change her mind then have to fight him in court.

He is from overseas so the idea that he could eventually move her is quite frightening.

I agree op that you should advise making no hasty decisions. And I'm also surprised that a mother would be prepared to be the nrp.

I know I'm mn that we try to pretend parents are equal, but in my experience they are not - mothers normally find it much harder to leave their children/babies when they go back to work.

That might just be social conditioning, but I find it hard to understand if men and women are the same, why do many men can leave without a backward look, often not paying maintenance for their kids and seeing them infrequently.

With this new bit of information I would advise your friend to keep hold of her dd.
This puts a new slant on the situation

I know of a similar situation. Dm has not seen her children for years. They lived with his parents in his home country for a period of time.
They came back to the UK but live hundreds of miles away
The dm didn't find out that they were back for some time. When she did the dc didn't want anything to do with her as they had been told she abandoned them.
It is a tragic situation.

Personally I think she will regret it but I think you need to support her decision. I also think that 10 days without contact will be very tough on the child. My ten year struggles when he is away from me for a week (with his dad). I hate it too but that's me and I know not everyone would feel the same.
I would be worried that if she sets this up now, and changes her mind, it will be very difficult to alter the contact.

It’s not a common scenario and it takes courage for a woman to admit she does not want to be the primary career. If her husband is a good father there is no reason why he wouldn’t do a better job than your friend as primary carer. I would just listen to your friend and support her it may well be best for her child to arrange the care in this way.

Ah seen he is from overseas. Yes he would certainly have more incentive to move back if he is doing the majority of the childcare (family support for him etc). Has she lost confidence in her parenting ability?
When ex left I found it v difficult as I have anxiety and suffer from depression on and off. I find mornings particularly hard but I have stepped up and cope really well now. I would hate her to make a decision because she feels she can't cope.

Where is he from overseas? She needs to be very careful. If she wants to go ahead, she MUST get a court order outlining her access and perhaps look at who keeps the child’s passport. This is particularly important if the country he is from is not a signatory to The Hague Convention.

Couple of websites: reunite.org for worst case scenario abduction abroad information
matchmothers.org who work with women who, for whatever reason, are apart from their children.

You may also find Wikivorce useful for general divorce and separation info as well as details on the legal processes involved with children. You sound like a good friend, help her to understand what she is giving up from a legal perspective but above all listen to both what she says and what she doesn’t say. Don’t forget Women’s Aid can help if there is abuse. I owe the fact my children are in my care today to a good friend who did all of that for me.

I would worry that he didn't want maintenance.

He sounds like he has a plan. He wouldn't need maintenance if he wasn't planning on sticking around. Or the children weren't going to be around.
It could be the scenario that instead of seeing her DD once per fortnight she never sees her again once him and his family have told her over and over that her DM abandoned her.