When you and a friend have different standards of discipline

[VoluptuaGoodshag]

My friend has a DD slightly older than mine though the two girls play well together. Her DD is rather wilful and can be quite a handful. I try not to let my DD away with anything and tell her off for bad behaviour. We are at the moment on a bit of a discipline trip which is working quite well as she's really been testing the boundaries of late. However after playing with the other girl she develops the same 'attitude' e.g. "that's not fair", "I want, I want", stomps off if she doesn't get her own way, refuses to do as she's told and really takes the mick.

The other day we were all together and my DD was misbehaving (being put up to it by other girl) and I told her off. She meekly sat down and said sorry but the other girl kind of looks at me triumphantly. Her mum says nothing. My friend has told me that she struggles with her and knows she lets her away with too much sometimes. Thing is on the odd occasion that her daughter has spent time with us alone, she is pretty well behaved so she knows she can get away with it with her mum. Don't actually know if there is a solution. I don't want to not see this family because I really like them including the girl, but it's just a bit more stressful than need be when we are out together.

The other girl 'looked at you triumphantly.' What did she have to be triumphant about? You'd stopped the bad behaviour hadn't you? Were you expecting her to apologise as well?
If you were able to control her behaviour you did well and she is not all that bad. I thought you were going to say she swore at you and threw a tantrum, or worse!

I'd be happy for my dd to continue the friendship in the circs. I don't think you need to worry about the other mother's struggles unless she directly asks you for advice.

Btw you don't say how old the girls are?

Know where you're coming from VGS. I have similar situation with my bf and her dd.

We are close and see each other all the time and tbh it was getting to the point where I didn't want to see her.

In the end I decided to bite the bullet and include friends dd into my 'telling off'. If she pulled toys away from my dd, I'd tell her that wasn't nice and to give it back etc. I'm not saying you should go ott with it. But if she gets your dd to do 'wrong' things, include her in the 'you do not do that...' speech.

No I wasn't expecting her to apologise I used the word triumphant to try to illustrate her behaviour and attitude. She was egging my daughter on knowing it was naughty and it was as if she knew that my DD would end up getting a telling off and thus she was 'triumphant' when she did. I have sort of told the two of them off together in the past and the other mother adds her own scolding (somewhat feeble IMO) and then there is a sort of awkward silence where I'm sure the mother feels hurt then I feel guilty for doing the telling off. They are aged 3 and 5 btw.

I do really feel for my friend. I know she struggles a bit and has admitted that she is at a loss as to what to do so I guess what I'm trying to do is to lead by example hoping that she'll be encouraged by the results. Her DD isn't that bad it's just that she knows she can run rings round her mother. I can tell by the look on her face that she relishes the challenge of testing the boundaries.

Am in similar situation VGS and have actually stopped my son playing with this other child. Mother refuses to accept that her child is aggressive despite being called in by teachers at preschool nursery to talk to her about it, also other mothers directly commenting to her about the behaviour and myself and another friend talking to her about it.

She is very weak with discipline and won't really fully admit to the problem, and what you don't acknowledge you can't fix.

I got tired of telling both children off, it got embarrasing in the end. Resorted to me directly saying to child "if you continue to do X then you will have to go home" horrid but I am not going to accept the behaviour. The child knows better and so does the mother. Sounds like the same case for you. The child always knows what they can get away with.

It may be that you have to say to the girl or mother or both that she can't play with your daughter if she continues to do X. Peer pressure is huge and your daughter may get worse

Hmmm. I am perhaps 'the other mother'! My DD is almost 3, and my friends DD is just 2. I really struggle because my friend is constantly chastising her DD (and sometimes mine ) for things I let mine do. Perhaps this is not the same as your situation - I let my DD do things like take her shoes/clothes off outside (in the garden), get dirty, get food out of the fridge and eat it, play with water and get wet/muddy etc.

My DD is a handful at the moment as well, and we have deliberatly chosen not to make an issue of some things, and focus on the big things (eg, being unkind, disobeying), but even when she does these 'big' things we sometimes choose to ignore her becuase we believe some of her misbehaviour is attention seeking.

My DD also plays with a little boy who has some behaviours we don't like, and does things we dont allow her to do. She does sometimes pick up on his habits for a while after playing with him, but overall she has a positive relationship with this boy, and I would not want them not to play. I also think children are perectly capable of learning that different people/homes have different rules, in fact, I think its important for them to see this.

Sorry for rambling, and sorry if ots all irrelevant, just thought I'd throw in my perspective.

It's a difficult one, but I don't think you can tell someone else's child off when the parent is present(unless they hurt another child). It is likely to lead to some kind of bad feeling.

If I'm ever in this sort of situation and my DC then asks why the other child is allowed to get away with misbehaving, I will just say something like 'I'm not x's Mum'.

If you really like them it would be a shame not to see them.

I had the impression the children were older from the way you told it. I think it's age appropriate behaviour to be honest and whilst I wouldn't ignore I would understand that it's a way for the child to express their feelings. Stamaping about, saying not fair etc is pretty normal imo for a 5 year old and is very age appropriate.

Is the 5 yo still pre-school? If she is about to start school, things could change when this happens.

Crossed posts. She is at school and she also has naughty moments with other children too. E.g. screaming that she wants to go home and insisting that she takes something with her. Refuses to stay for a playover without her mother being there. I really, really want to help and make things work. I will not 'not see them' because this is the first person I've managed to get friendly with in this area and we get on really well. And like I've said, the girl isn't really that bad.

I'll keep trying with the disciplining of my child no matter what and do the joint disciplining where necessary.

Children are all different. Just because something works with your dd doesnt mean it would work well with your friend's dd. I have 3 children and have to discipline all 3 of them very differently. DS2 responds very well to boundaried. Head on- "don't do that" just does not work with ds3- it makes things 1000 times worse. He requires a completely different approach.

Just say to your dd when she does something you don't allow "no we don;t do that in this house, I don't care what x does in theirs."

That's what my mum always used to say to me.

I agree Gess. Some children are just more compliant. I have a friend who I suspect is shocked by what I let my dc get away with as she prides herself on her dc's good behaviour. However some days I just get completely fed up of being constantly on their backs to behave etc. Also my dc tend to behave differently with different friends(and their parents).

I keep trying to warn the school that ds3 is nothing like ds2 (who keeps getting good behaviour certificates- 1st prize) - they are going to have a shock. Ds3's nursery (who also had ds2 and ds1 go to them) think its hilarious that they're so different.

Why the name mimizan? I went on holiday to a place called mimizan (I think) as a kid.

Went on our honeymoon there with dc.

oh- lovely- by a lake. Princess Di married Charles while we were there!!!! Long time ago. I got very sunburned. I think it was my favourite holiday.

But some of this at least is due to the age difference. My dd at 3 was pretty much an obedient angel. At nearly 5 she's a very different kettle of fish! And I frequently find myself in situations with her in which I feel slightly out of my depth as to how to control her.

As it happens I don't think my dd is a particularly difficult nearly 5-year-old and she doesn't 'cause trouble' like your friend's dd does. But personally I think it's up to your friend to tell off her dd unless you're doing a general rule reminding session with your dd and her friend. If your friend is a good friend who you can talk frankly to, why not tell her your worries and ask her if she minds you using the same rules for your dd and hers?

The other thing is of course that if your dd isn't at school / nursery now, she soon will be and she'll be in touch with all kinds of different characters. There are two girls my dd has to contend with at school who scare me! If you encourage your dd to deal with this girl in a positive and strong way without too much intervention from you, then you'll be doing her a big service when it's time to start school.

Yes it is a lovely place. There are 2 parts to it, one by a lake, the other by a beach. We stayed by the beach. Would like to go back as it's great for children, although the sea is too rough for kids to play in. Great for surfing. Bet it's not changed that much in 20+ years.

I agree with IF. there's a huge difference between a 3 year old and 5 year old. many many 5 year olds are testing the boundaries in ways that most 3 year olds can't even conceive of. And virtually every one I know is an angel for other grown-ups and only tests the boundaries with their own parents. I'd try not to worry about it - and - especially if you don;t have/haven't had a 5 year old yourself - I'd steer clear of doing anything more than including her in a general telling off when it's clear it's needed. I would find it very very hard if someone with younger kids than mine implied that they thought i wasn;t handling mine right. 5 year olds can be bloody hard work. a bit of empathy - the odd jokey comment that you might be in for the same when yours reaches that age would help your friend feel better too.

Hi hatwoman!

Yes, it's so infuriating when someone with a 2-year-old looks daggers at your 5-year-old over something they've done which is actually pretty standard for a 5-year-old but seems like the worst crime in the world when you've only got a compliant toddler to compare with.

Oh I missed the age difference- gosh yes that completely explains it. As a 3 year old ds2 was a sweet little thing who played with trains, now aged 5 trains are baby and we've already had foot stamping this morning (and he's what I would call a very well behaved 5 year old normally).

Glad to hear it hasn't changed mimizan. If we ever get to the stage where we take family holidays again I may well seek it out- I remember it fondly.

1. 3 and 5 are very different ages

1. Especially as kids get older, it is very common for them to behave a lot better with non family members who they know less well.

1. This "She meekly sat down and said sorry but the other girl kind of looks at me triumphantly." does sound ike a pretty normal 5 yo to me, tbh.

and my god it is hard to have a wild, untamable, disobediant older kid playing with someone else's angelic younger child. You feel like your kid should be behaving better cos they are older, while KNOWING that the other mother, if its her first, is probably secretly hoping that her kid never turns out like yours...its vile.

IF thanks for that advice and I totally agree about doing my DD a big favour in letting her sort it out for herself.

"When you and a friend have different standards of discipline"

You have different children.

Wait until your child is five.