Dd2 just doesn't 'get' eating and sleeping properly and i reckon it must be my fault

[Moomin]

Dd2 is 18m old, still doesn't sleep through the night. She doesn't eat enough in the day to get her through the night; she wakes every night for milk at least once, sometimes twice and 1) we're knackered 2) I think she's over-reliant on milk as it's the one thing she guzzles, night or day.

I've spoken to the HV about it who is very supportive. She asked me to keep a food & sleep diary for a week and she said we're giving her all the right food, we're not allowing her to be 'faddy' even though she doesn't eat an awful lot, and she's waking in the night due to hunger, so there's no point trying CC as it never works with a hungry baby. She suggested we upped the calories in dd2's food, which we did but she still won't eat everything we give her. I keep it as varied as I can and I guess she just eats what she fancies and she seems healthy enough. But she also has a sensitive gag reflex and if she eats too much she vomits a short while after eating. She also pukes if she's left to cry too long so we tend to go in to her in the night after not too long crying. We've also got dd1 to consider as well; she's a light sleeper and is at school so I don't think it's fair to disrupt her sleep.

If we give dd2 the milk she goes off to sleep again and part of me (and dh) says anything for an easy life, but the other part of me worried that she's stocking up on milk too much at the expense of other food but we can't break the cycle. She only has a small drink of milk in the day now, then a big bottle before she goes to bed.

We've tried most things to stop the night-waking and also improve her eating and they just don't work. Do we just put up with it?

mmm water down her milk at night to make her hungrier during the day. The volume will make her feel full enough to go make to sleep but the calorie intake will be far less.

Other than that it is cold turkey and no milk at night - put up with the broken nights to shift her hunger into day time.

No easy solution that I can think of.

I'm in exactly the same position.

dd2 is 16 months and wakes up most nights for milk, she doesn't eat an awful lot during the day either.

I try not to give milk in the night but she gets so worked up shes sick and wakes dd1 up as well, in the end either me or dh gives in.

No answers I'm afriad but you're not on your own!

def got to be in it for the long term if you are going to go cold turkey - take a week of work and rope in some friends/relatives to help out during the day so you can nap to cope with it??????

I'm miserable when dd3 comes to visit us so you really do have my sympathy I just don't don't "do" sleep deprevation very well.

thanks. I know it counds pathetic but it's good to know we're not the only ones! Yes, will try watering down milk again. Didn't work last time but I can't remember why, but will give it another go

can't do the cold turkey option, she just cries until she vomits . will do the watering down again

Ds1 woke up every 2 hours till he was 18months. Then he gradually got better. I think you get to a stage where you come to some sort of arrangement where everybody gets SOME sleep. I do remember one night when DH actually fell out of bed because both ds had got in with us and we were so tired we didn't notice. He barely woke up, just slept the rest of the night on the floor.
This is probably no help, but what I am trying to say is that everything is a phase - behaviour can be modified, but you have to weigh up how you are going to do it and can you work together and stick to whatever the rules will be, or if you give it a little while and see if things get better. It really depends on how much it is affecting your life.

The best source of help I ever came across is a little book called "my child won't sleep" by Jo Douglas and Naomie Richman. I am always recommending it on here. It is still in print, as is the companion book "Coping with small children".

HTH

what did you do with him each time he woke tlf? did he always come in with you? did he want cuddles or milk? sorry but lol about your dh sleeping on floor

perhaps give her only watered down milk day & night - start off with a tiny bit of water and increase it each time. So she gets used to the different taste? It should be a short term arrrangement to sort out the sleep issue so don't worry about long term health issues of her not having full fat milk etc.

I think the monitoring of what she eats etc is probably adding to the stress of the situation TBH

I only wrote it down for 1 week for the HV so it's not much of an issue really. I just enjoy cooking and giving them a varied, balanced diet then it gets me down when dd2 throws it off her tray after 5 spoonfuls. At least dh and dd1 eat it all up!

Well - it varied tbh. I was pregnant with ds2 and was really ill. I didn't have the emotional reserves to be tough with him. It has a lot to do with them not having learned to fall asleep naturally - that is without sucking or soothing or similar. For a while, it was easier to just let him get in with us - he was very insecure and anxious because I was ill, and I didn't think his anxiety would be helped by me getting tough.

As he got older, more active and his comprehension increased he began to sleep better. We had a bit of regression when ds2 was born. Whenever I was feeding ds2 in the night, ds1 would appear with his book and expect a story because ds2 was awake.

Ds1 was definitely a very light sleeper, and in our first house we had very noisy neighbours and that didn't help. We moved somewhere quieter when ds2 was 18 months and I think that probably made a difference.

I made a point of always putting ds2 down to sleep when he was still awake. I never let him cry more than 5 minutes, but he did learn to fall asleep by himself and was always a brilliant sleeper.

It is all a distant memory now - ds1 is 18 now and sleeps like the proverbial top.

They really do outgrow it and although it seems like it is going on forever, it gets better.

The book has lots of suggestions and helps to clarify all the reasons why children have sleep challemges.

I guess what I am trying to say is that culture and perception and one's personal situation has a big influence on how you cope with sleep challemges, and it is hard to work out if sleep patterns just improve with maturity, or as a result of intervention.

A bit rambling I know, but there are as many reasons for sleep problems as there are families, and 18 months is very young - in the grand scheme of things. IYSWIM.

yes thanks, that's interesting. I've been thinking along those lines a bit more recently, although it is hard, when everyone around us seems obsessed with whether a child 'eats well' or 'sleeps well' or 'is she good'

In the words of the famous song, it's whatever gets you through the night, I spose! I think she's getting to the stage where she's just finding herself in the world as well, she's much more clingy and stroppy than she used to be and a lot of that is just frustration with not being understood properly and also needing us there for reassurance. Incidently, she goes to bed with no problems, she doesn't have a dummy or bottle to go to bed with or any of the 'props'; she goes to bed at around 7 and we generally don't hear a peep until the early hours, anything between 2 and 4. We watered her milk down a bit last night - we'll see how it goes!

Yes - as a society we have such high expectations - in all respects. Everyone is under pressure - parents have to work long hours and there is no extended family to help with child care. In many cultures the issue of sleep or eating problems simply don't exist - children are considered to be babies until they are at least 3, and everyone shares the child rearing and there are no rules. It sounds wonderful - and totally unrealistic in our western culture.

All I would say is that every child is different. None of mine would entertain the idea of a playpen, or a dummy. My eldest was an awful sleeper, the second was wonderful. I can't remember what the 3rd was like because it all passed in a haze.

The teenage years are much harder, but you get through it and emerge battered, bewildered, but generally proud and relieved!

Try to enjoy all the good bits, because the time passes so quickly. You will probably look back and think it wasn't such a big problem after all.

That's interesting. The milk at bedtime thing is just something that I think lots of people do - and as kids we too had a milky drink at bedtime. Milk induces sleep, so I guess that's the thinking... and a full tummy is sposed to aid sleeping too. That's why there's so much going on about early weaning - lots of people think that if their baby is on solids it will sleep better (whereas I think it's just coincidence really: if your dc is going to sleep through they're going to sleep through).