XP just started seeing dd again and really p**ing me off!

[Pesha]

Xp and I split when dd was 9 months old, she is now 6.5. He coped very badly, moved away and stopped seeing her cos he wanted to wait til she was old enough to remember him each time
He came back with a new girlfriend and started seing her again just before she was 2, started off casually then became every other weekend having her to stay. He always seemed very angry and bitter still, any phone conversation would normally involve him hanging up and then ringing me back about 5 times despite me trying very hard to always be reasonable. In may 2004 when she was 3.6 he bought her back, got cross with me and stormed off. I texted him several times he said he just wanted to see her, if he had to put up wih hassle form me all the time he would just walk away. I said if he was prepared to just walk out of her life so easily he should go while she was young enough to get over it. I then texted several more times to say soory if that seemed harsh but i couoldnt understand how he could even consider leaving, we needed to talk etc etc. He eventually texted back just saying 'bye' and that was it. I have had to contact him twice since he left, once last summer and once the summer before about a policy in his name. Both times he mentioned seeing her again but I didnt feel it was a good idea. I had contacted him, he never sent a christmas or birthday card, he never asked about her it all seemed purely about his life and how she would fit in. he talked about his job and he couldnt guarantee he wouldnt have to move away and stop seeing her and i just felt he wasnt that committed to it.

But he came back to me again a couple of months ago and said he wanted to see her again, he is married now with an 8 month old baby and has bought a house just over an hours drive away. He did seem less angry and more grown up in his attitude and also much more determined to see her and i believe if i said no he would have gone to court ( I know his mum would take great pleasure in paying for this). So I said yes, we had a few long conversations, he said he wanted to have her to stay at his house for a weekend once a month. So on sun 4th DD and I met him, his wife (who I have actually always liked) and their dd in town and spent the afternoon together which went fine. He asked to have her to stay the following weekend as his parents would be visiting but I felt it was too much too soon plus we already had plans. I heard nothing from him again until last tues when he said he would be here wed for work could he take her out for tea after school. I said no we should stick to weekends, would he like to see her sat afternoon so he did, he took her off for the afternoon for lunch and things. He'd told me on phone he wouldnt be feeding her crap or macdonalds or anything like that(his words), he would take her somewhere for 'proper food'. He also told me when we were discussing him coming back into her life that he wouldnt spoil her with non stop sweets and whatever she wants like grandparents do but would treat her like I do. AND this was not what I asked him to do it was what he volunteered he would do. So she comes back and they've been to the hungry horse for lunch, she's had loads of sweets and ice cream and had macdonalds for tea and came back with chocolate easter egg. Then he asked if he can have her next weekend cos his parents are coming down. I said no cos we've agreed that he sees her once a month so to see her 2 weekends in a row is just going to confuse her and make her think that that could be a regular occurence. As far as im concerned he can start off seeing her less and gradually increase the frequency if we want, that shouldnt confuse her too much; but he cant start seeing her lots and then drop it down cos then she'll be left feeling lost and wondering why he's not here so much etc. I said this briefly and he just turned around said ok and walked back to car to wait while dd was getting a pic to show him. If he wanted to see her next weekend why not say that when i suggested this one?!
Oh she also mentioned friday that when she used to visit him 3 years ago when she was 3 he used to give her chewing gum, she's not allowed it now ffs and Im sure he knew she wasnt then but thought if i didnt know it didnt matter.

Anyway she's just been talking to me and telling me how he's been telling her he's her real daddy and he likes her to call him daddy and dee (his wife) is her step mummy so they're thinking of names for dee. And my dp jamie who she calls daddy and has been there for her since she was 21months old and even when him and i split up for a while still used to have her as much as ds (mine and dps son together who is 3 yrs old), apparently he's just her step daddy. AND, and this is the best bit, when she's older she can choose whos house she wants to live in! I said to her well maybe when you're MUCH older and she said yeah like 20 or something and i said yes exactly. How fucking dare he. Hes walked out on her twice already, he's spent 2 afternoons with her after not bothering AT ALL for 3 years and now he's telling her she can live with him.

Sorry this is so long but I am so angry and beginning to think oh god what have i done. What is he thinking telling her all this?! I have written him an email and would love a few opinions on it, whether you think its too harsh or not harsh enough. Oh and please point out any spelling mistakes Will post it in a min for you.

Should also mention i am 38 weeks pregnant which is obviously making me abit more sensitive but also makes this all abit more difficult for dd too.

This would seriously p**s me off too.

I think he needs talking to before the next visit. Visits need to be scheduled well in advance, and he needs to know which boundaries he cannot cross....

Ok here is the email I have written him, really would appreciate all your honest views. The last time wheh he was having contact with her was an absolute nightmare and I really want to make sure (as much as i can) that I make things clear to him from the beginning but without antagonising him too much.

Dan,

Following this weekend I'm afraid there have been some things happen which I am not happy about so I'm emailing you as I fear if I tried to talk to you things may get out of hand.

The first thing I would like to mention is Maia tells me when she used to visit you aged 3 you used to give her chewing gum. She is not allowed chewing gum now never mind 3 years ago and I believe you knew this. Please do not give her chewing gum anymore and do not think she wont eventually tell me things like this.

When we spoke on the phone before you told me you would not spoil her and give her endless sweets and whatever she wants like grandparents do but you would feed her and look after her as I do as your visits with her will be a regular thing. It appears this was not the case this weekend. You also told me specifically that you would not be taking her to Macdonalds and then you did. I do not object to Macdonalds per se, we took her and Nathan Friday evening, but I do expect if you say that you wont do something that you wont do it. She ended up having Macdonalds for tea 2 nights running.

I thought we had agreed, at your suggestion, that you would see her once a month at weekends. I feel very strongly that we have to start as we mean to go on. Children are very quick to think that if something happens once there is a very real possibility it will happen again. So if you were to see her at this early stage on a weekday or 2 weekends in a row then I am sure she would be fully expecting that this would happen again and this is the way things will be from now on. If we had a long established routine of visits once a month at weekends then a slight variation to this would be seen as such by Maia and would not be a problem but at present we do not have that so anything other than weekend visits once a month will just cause Maia confusion and upset. I tried to discuss this with you on Saturday but unfortunately you just walked away from me.

This is a very sensitive situation as I have continually said to you, Maia is very sensitive. Since your return she has been much more prone to emotional outbursts. She has had a whole week of crying in the morning when I leave her at school with no more explanation than she misses me. She has never done this before in nearly 2 years of school. I am not blaming you for this and fully accept there may be other factors such as the baby. I mention it just to emphasise how sensitive to change she is and hopefully to help you see how important it is we take this very carefully and establish a firm routine so she knows exactly how things stand.

Maia also tells me that you have been asking her to call you daddy and telling her that Jamie is her step daddy. Jamie has been more of a daddy than you have ever been and I really am not happy with you trying to undermine his position because actually all you are doing is undermining Maia's position in this family. If she feels like he isn't as much her daddy as he is Nathan's or the baby's it will not make her love you more or feel like she is more yours it will just make her feel like she is less loved here. The only person it will really affect and hurt is Maia. She knows who you are and at present feels happy calling you danny. Please respect her wishes and accept this. If she later feels she wants to call you daddy or something similar I will respect that and will never try to discourage it but we must leave it to her to decide what she feels happy with in her own time. I am not happy with you having any discussions with her about who her proper daddy is or isn't or Jamie's position in this family. If she is to start such a conversation with you then of course you must answer but please try and do so in the least upsetting way for her.

Finally I am most upset that you have told her when she is older she can choose whose house she wishes to live in. This is not the case. I am very upset and angry that you would tell her something like this. All it can possibly serve to do is upset and confuse her. I cannot understand why you would say this to her and what you would hope it would achieve. You have not seen her for 3 years and have not even sent her a birthday or Christmas card (despite me suggesting last year that you did). Can you not imagine the confusion this must be causing Maia for you to now return and start telling her her family is not what it was and one day she can live with you. 'When you're older' has little real meaning to a 6 year old. When you said you wanted to be part of her life again it seemed as if you had grown up and were purely concerned with her best interests and her happiness. However I am now being forced to question this after the events of this weekend. It appears more like you are thinking about what suits you and what makes you feel better. Or you have no idea what a 6 year old needs in terms of love, routine, security and pretty much everything else. I do have her best interests at heart and as my number 1 concern (if I didn't I would not have agreed to you seeing her again) and I do know what is best for her and what she needs as the person that knows her better than anyone. Hopefully you can now realise this and respect my wishes in future. I will not stand by and watch you hurt her again.

And if anyone actually manages to read all this then well done!! Sorry hadnt realised quite how long that was

Thankyou mumto3. Im qute conscious of the fact that Im still peed off with him from 3 years ago, that im pregnant and so hormones all over the place, and that im hurt on dps behalf as he has been her daddy and now has to just step aside and let someone else in so keep worrying that I may be overreacting. I dont want to be angry and to have endless arguments with him cos i dont need the stress and dd will pick up on it. But at same time I feel i need to stand firm and let him know what is and whats not ok.

Ok I need to go and get DS as he has just woken up but here are my first thoughts.

Its a very long email, if it were me I'd cut it down to the points that are really important to you, so is the junk food as important as the quesiton about whose house she lives in. Also I'd try and make it as neutral as possible as it means he is more likely to take on board what you are saying.

Morally I think you are entirely right,good luck.

i thought the email was very clear and put across your views well,in a way that he would/could understand, but you didnt appear to be starting an arguement either IMO.

and just because you are pg,it doesnt mean you dont know whats right/best for everyone

Good luck

I think the letter a good idea rather than a confontation. I undersatnd your reason for the chewing gum incident but not sure that raising it now will help matters. Obviously you are angry about his coming and going and rightly do not want your daughter hurt again. Is there no way you can talk this through civily rather than blaming each other. Easier said than done i know. Think you right to stick to the agreed visits and take it one step at a time. But not sure you can judge him for taking her to Mc Donalsd etc. If you take her.

Agree Rookie Mum better to sort out the more important things and then approach the food/ chewing issue later if it's still a problem.

Hi Pesha, I have no experience of this but would be very sterssed and upset about this if I was you. It made me really sad to read in your letter that your dd has been crying at school. Its an unsettling time anyway when a new baby comes along god only knows what an AWOL dad turning up would do!

In terms of ther letter, if I can be totally honest I think it is probably 100% accurate but could also be read as antagonistic in places. Putting myself in your ex h position I would come back fighting - please dont think I am saying he would be right, just that he doesnt seem to be able to think of you or his dd's feelings so I am assuming he may not take the criticism well.

My comments would be:

drop the chewing gum sentence. It starts the letter with an incident that happended 3 years ago and may get his back up from the start. you have bigger issues to fight than that one.

"I tried to discuss this with you on Saturday but unfortunately you just walked away from me" - I would also not put this in, I think, you made your point well and this may just further annoy him.

"Jamie has been more of a daddy than you have ever been" - I agree with you but if he is genuine about wanting to see her this might upset him, and if he is likely to cause you problems this might just seriously piss him off. He must know he has been a crap dad so I personally wouldnt rub it in. I think you are really reasonable in the rest of that paragraph and there is nothing else there he can object to.

I think the last 6 or so lines could be seen by him as antagonistic, questioning his maturity and parenting skills. Dont get me wrong, I agree with you, but in the spirit of trying to work with him rather than against him this may not help your cause.

I would also make more of phrases such as "by doing this, you may make her feel" so it is not his actions you are critising but the effects they may have on your DD.

I hope this gets sorted out for yours and your DD's sake, this is the last thing you both need with a new baby on the way.

I think really my issue with the junk food is not that he's doing it but that he specifically told me he wouldnt and then did anyway. I never asked him not to as I dont really have a big problem with it. I think im upset because hes saying he'll do something and then when im not there just doing whatever he wants. And so soon in to seeing her again. But i can see that its not the most important of issues so perhaps i should leave it till later or at least try and condense and make the point abit clearer?

I do see your point about the food Pesha, it is about you being able to trust what he says not about what he is feeding her. Maybe reword that bit to make it clear the issue is with him keeping his word.

I too think that discussing an incident 3 years ago is not the best start - sorry this has to be brief as i am alone with dd3, but i think this could potentially cause trouble as he may tell your dd off for 'telling on him' and he may make her promise not to tell mummy everything in future and this would be bad for both you and her.

Don't let her feel stuck in the middleif yoyu can possibly help it. Back later...

I do think that a letter is a good idea, but I think it?s best to address the issues that are important. The fact that he gave her chewing gum three years ago is, IMO, not relevant here. It happened three years ago, you?ve both moved on since then, if you start bringing up the past like that you will only put his back up. Similarly trips to fast food restaurants and him giving your dd sweets isn?t really that big a deal in the grand scheme of things. Yes he said he wouldn?t but really a trip to mcd?s and some chocolate isn?t going to hurt once a month is it.

The fact that he?s raised the issue about him being her daddy etc is possibly down to the fact that he?s now feeling quite overwhelmed by all this. It sounds from your op that he?s grown up considerably since you two were together, that he has a wife now and another baby, and it?s possible that he has a huge amount of guilt over the way he?s treated her in the past, and that he wants to be a part of your daughter?s life, and wants her to accept him as her ?daddy? and not just some guy that she goes out with once a month. He perhaps didn?t go about it in the right way but it does sound to me as if he had good intentions, might just be worth having a chat about how this will all affect her.

Would it be possible for the two of you to perhaps see a mediator, and come to a proper arrangement re access? Put it all in writing so that there can be no confusion over who gets to have your dd and when?

Thank you kezza, x posted with you before. I think you may be right but at the same time i am angry and hurt an want him to know that!! I think I may have to sit on it for a couple of days till ive calmed down and then I might be more willing to take those bits out!

I did wonder about the bit about jamie being more of a daddy, I think this will upset him. I have been very careful up till now to be very diplomatic and nice and not say anything like this to him.

And think i will leave the chewing gum bit out. I wanted to say this to him at the weekend but didnt get chance so just stuck it in the email but can see it kind of trivialises the rest of the email.

I think if you really want to let him know how you feel then the email does do it, and tbh you could have gone much further and still been in the right. I guess I was looking at it from a concillatory point of view, which of course you have every right not to be.

Is it possible to have a meeting with your dp and his dw to thrash out some ground rules after the email has been sent. It might help to have his dw on side, and you might fele better if you met and her and liked her, or at least didnt hate her on sight

Hey Pesha, I sent you an email but now I'm thinking you were having probs with the email address I've got for you (or at least I think you were - sorry pg brain!). Anyway if you didn't get it no problem, I think everything I've said has been covered by the posts already on here.

Sorry x posting with everyone cos trying to look after dc at same time.

We have had a talk about him being her real daddy, I have told him that she remembers him from before and remembered that he was her 'real daddy who made her'. When we all went out together we discussed that he was her real daddy again and that the baby was her sister and we talked about some of the other people in his family that she will get to see and are her family too. Its that he seems to be undermining jamies position now that upsets me.

Nutty - i did have probs sending emails the other night but has been ok since, ill check in a min.

Kezza - have met his wife and i like her very much, in fact when he wanted to resume contact withh dd when she was 2 it was because i liked his wife (then girlfriend) so much that i felt happy letting him see her again. Really i think what you said is right and I should try and calm it down. I have been very calm with him and spent years trying not to upset him and be the sensible one. Now i am tempted just to let him know how I feel abit more but you're probably all right in saying it wont achieve anything. Its very hard though!!

Oh well thats good and at least you can feel a bitmore confortable, it must be very hard if you dont like your exes new partner.

Good luck with it, I hope he realises he has some work to do to prove himself to both of you. Maybe save all your anger for email number 2 if it comes to it!

Hi really feel for you and your family. This is exactly what i fear will happen in years to come with my ds's dad. its been a year so far since he last saw him.
I think you have been very diplomatic with yyour email and i think it is very fair. maybe some bits are a bit trivial to others but i would put them in if i felt they were still points i wanted to get across otherwise you might try bringing them up at another time and he might accuse you of constantly 'going at him'.

He's very lucky you have let him back in your daughter's life at all so he is in no position to be tryin to push boundries and disrupt her normal life.

Im probably a little bias though but i think it is clear and to the point

Thanks juicy

Can i ask poples opinions of what they think of him telling her she can choose whose house she wants to live in when she's older.

This is what has got me most worked up, i think its an outrageously irresponsible thing to tell her. I cant see why he would, does he have no understanding of children at all? And why on earth does he think he has the right to tell her that? i am absolutely fuming about this and find it quite worrying aswell that he should say something like this so soon.

Can anyone see his point of view on this cos I really cant except that he's being a prick!

i agree he has no right at all in saying this. Things might be different if he had never lost contact and he had always been a part of her life as there would be a better understanding on her part (even thought she is only 6) of what it would mean. and also, if he had had regular contact all this time i doubt he would have even said it anyway!!

its been 2 weeks ffs he hasn't got a clue!! gosh it makes me mad!
sorry

He is totally out of order on this one. It will be confusing and unsettling for her while she is little, and in the long run could cause no end of problems. Imagine when she is a fiesty teen and tries playing you off against each other.

hi Pesha

not had any experience of this first-hand (so please ignore anything you think is off-beam!) but just want to say i think you are entirely right to be upset at his actions.

i agree with what people have said about the e-mail. The only other thing I would add is that maybe you should/could sugget putting the next 3 month's visits in the diary now. 1, this would avoid confusion that might lead to more tension and 2, it would add a positive note to the e-mail.

I think the issue about him saying she can choose where she lives is a huge one that maybe would need a conversation to thoroughly work through (and maybe a conversation that your ex's new wife is party too as well, esp if she is a bit more reasonable/sensible). Perhaps you need to try to make him see that saying things like that will ultimately be detrimental to both his and your relationship with Maia, because she will be able to play you off.

to be honest, it sounds like you have a hard task ahead of you. He is clearly on a learning curve with the whole parenting thing and you are in the difficult position of being a more experienced parent (therefore knowing more and being a better judge of situations) but also being his ex-partner and someone who he isn't really wanting to take advice from.

Hope that you find some way to resolve this without too much stress. xx

Your e-mail was, totally understandably, a mish mash of feelings and current and past events.

In order for your dd's contact to be good, she needs you to simply focus on the here and now. Things like chewing gum and what he feeds her while with her are simply not your battles to fight; he is the parent when with her, these things are up to him when he has her, and I'm afraid I don't think the fact that he said he wouldn't give her treats or McD's then did, is any sort of problem....sometimes the day goes totally differently to how we plan, also the newness of seeing her no doubt made him and his family want to give her treats....only if he goes back on his word on an on-going basis and on really important things, would this warrant that amount of negativity.

On the issue of calling him daddy, yes he must go with what she's comfortable with. And it was inappropriate to tell her she could choose who to live with.

I think you need to agree a simple timetable of contact for, say, the rest of 2007. He will get totally pissed off with having to come to you for 'permission' to see her all the time, and it will also mean that you all feel your dd has a consistent plan in place, that your ex can hopefully keep to.

From her point of view you are so right, it needs to be consistent and it needs to be positive, so the adults need to be superhumanly calm with eachother. good luck.

Thank you for all responses,read them quickly earlier and was desperate to get on and respond but since I actually have got my DC to bed my body and brain seem to have just collapsed on me and I have no energy to deal with thinking about this at the moment. Didnt want anyone to think i was ignoring their posts and I will try and rewrite my email tomorrow and will be asking for opinions on the revised edition
Thank you so much for your help and advice, please keep it coming