Is this acid reflux, colic, neither or both?

[ThisIsActuallyHappening]

My 3 week old makes a lot of grunting noises post feeds (despite, largely unsuccessful, winding attempts), clenches her fists, draws her knees up and looks generally uncomfortable. Putting her down in her cot is proving impossible.

I have tilted the head end of her cot, keep her upright for 30mins post feed and she's already in infant Gaviscon from the hospital ... any other suggestions gratefully received. Also if this does sound like colic or acid reflux?

Thank you

Is she sick at all? It sounds more like colic than reflux. £ weeks seems to be when colic kicks in! My son had colic but also severe reflux. Every time I laid him down out came the milk!

There is no such thing as colic.
Are you winding the baby well?

I think we need to be really careful when we use the term colic because there are so many definitions of it. There is no actual gastric condition in babies called colic. Yes - there reflux and cmpa and more rarely, lactose intolerance but persistent crying may be attributed to other things. Love this link .....

www.babydoc.com.au/faq/colic-bore-your-baby-to-sleep/

Never lie her flat - causes acid in the throat

Put her stomach round your boob - (head up obviously) and press the pressure helps! Keep winding it takes a long while

My baby was spitting up like crazy. It was accompanied by kicking and crying and arching his back. My doctor told me it was reflux. I have tried many things, including major dietary changes and medication, but the only thing that has worked is, babies magic tea. It soothes baby's digestive tract. My baby sleeps better and shows no pain. He doesn't even spit up anymore, except a little milk right after because he drinks so much! I hope it helps. Reflux is awful for you and your baby. I had a ton of guilt over it. Hang in there.

LapinR0se Oh how stupid of me - I just imagined it! Doh! And my MIL who's a retired GP did too! The OP already said she winds her baby!

I'm sure if your mother was a GP now she would have updated training.
Colic is a descriptive term for unexplained bouts of excessive crying.
However what people used to call colic is actually pain or discomfort caused by intolerances/allergies, hunger or overtiredness.
Colic is not a medical term or a diagnosis and the days of it being a catch-all phrase used to fob off worried mothers are thankfully gone.

Well baby isn't being sick so it isn't conventional reflux. It could be silent reflux if baby appears to be in pain specifically when lying flat and/or has a hoarse, pained cry when lying flat (from the acid hurting their throat). But to me it sounds more like trapped wind and/or a baby who just doesn't want to be put down. Or, if this is mostly in the evenings, overstimulation as Patrick's link describes.

I'd fiddle around with winding techniques and try as many as you can until you find one that works best for you. And if baby is particularly unhappy in the evenings, try the minimising sensory input thing. That was my son's problem tbh - he really needed help managing sensory overwhelm.

PS if you aren't seeing improvement I'd go ahead and drop the Gaviscon.

LapinROse The NHS seems to think it is still a medical term:-
www.nhs.uk/Conditions/Colic/Pages/Introduction.aspx

Where do they've say it so a medical term?

Colic is definitely a thing - whether its medical or not so i would ignore that comment.

My daughter had reflux, if you get baby gaviscon from doctor you will notice a difference in a couple of days (if it is reflux). If you dont see a difference its probably not colic.

ALSO try different teats on bottles if you are using them. Sometimes that can really help any trapped wind x

LapinR0se I don't think the NHS website deals with non medical issues... I'm taking it you've never had a baby with colic

I'm another one who thinks it could be silent reflux. My dd had/has that along with cow's milk protein allergy. Bloody nightmare!

Thanks all for your input. She is occasionally a little sick post feed but generally only if she is lay down. We don't however ever lie her down flat anywhere (except on the changing mat!).

Colic I had understood was an umbrella term for gastric discomfort, reflux being acid coming back up the oesophagus ... ? I agree on reflection and more research, this sounds more reflux. However I will also look into winding techniques and work to improve on this to help further.

Thanks!

She is occasionally a little sick post feed but generally only if she is lay down. We don't however ever lie her down flat anywhere (except on the changing mat!).

That's very normal though. Does the vomiting distress her, i.e. does she start to cry in a very pained way as she vomits? If it just pops out then I doubt it's reflux, just normal baby spit-up.

I agree that babies are not diagnosed with colic these days. It seems it was a catch all term for digestive issues.
A baby does not need to be bringing milk back up to have reflux. They can have silent reflux where there is no vomiting but a lot of discomfort.

Reflux can be caused by 3 different things. Cows milk protein intolerance, tongue tie or just simply that the top muscle of the stomach hasn't developed enough to keep the stomach contents and acid down.
Tongue tie is often not even checked by midwives, gps and health visitors.

I have diagnosed many babies with tongue tie who have already been seen by numerous health professionals. Have a look on the internet for pictures of tongue tie and check your DC's tongue. In some babies it's very easy to see, others not so much. The easiest way to check is to lay baby flat on their back, on your knee, while they are crying. The tongue should almost reach the roof of their mouth, and then check the underneath of the tongue.
It's a simple procedure to get it snipped, although waiting times on NHS can be long. Private is much quicker if you can afford it.
Research has not yet proven that snipping tongue tie is always beneficial, but in my experience, it can make a huge difference.

Thanks HunterCatsSlave - yes she does have a posterior tongue tie and we're currently waiting for our referral to have it snipped. Out of interest, what sort of cost is it to have this done privately, do you know? I appreciate it will vary depending in region etc. And what do I search for when looking to have it done privately? I keen to get this resolved ASAP.

She is also a premature baby, so her diaphragm is very weak/not properly developed. I just wasn't sure what of her symptoms were relating to reflux and what could be something else, but sounds like it's a combination of normal baby issues and reflux, nothing more. Thank you

If you just search for "tongue tie division" you should be able to find a practitioner local to you. Check their qualifications, as there is specialist training for it. In my area it costs anywhere between £100-150 to get the tongue snipped. I know one of the practitioners offers to only charge half the cost, if it ends up that there is no snip needed. Eg if a parent isn't sure that the baby has tongue tie but wants to get it checked.
It's worth making enquiries and going on your intuition as to which qualified practitioner to choose. Quite a few local to me so I imagine it's similar elsewhere.
Good luck with it. You will get through this.