My daughter and my brother

[ClariceB]

This has been playing on my mind for a while now, and I wanted to ask people what they genuinely think is the problem here. I posted this somewhere else (not Mumsnet) and the consensus seemed to be that there's nothing wrong with my brother not wanting to see his niece. However, I thought I'd ask a few mums what they think!

My brother is 4 years older than me, in his forties, and lives with his girlfriend (who is about my age). Before they lived together he had about 4 framed photos of my daughter in his living room (if I remember they were the only photos he had). Before I had my daughter he said that he would always help out, babysit etc - but this has never happened. I don't have too much of a problem with this, but am just illustrating the difference in terms of his attitude now and then. We used to live a few doors apart a couple of years ago and he would regularly visit with cakes, food etc and for a chat.

Since he's bought a place with his girlfriend, the photos have gone and been replaced with 4 very prominent photos of her nephew (the photos were literally removed from their frames and replaced with photos of her nephew). My mum asked him why this was and he didn't really respond, but begrudgingly put an old photo of my daughter out in the hall (by the coats and the door).

He very rarely, if ever, comes to visit us. To such an extent that my daughter asked him yesterday "Why do you never ever come to see us?" He said he did and abruptly changed the subject. Just before Christmas, his girlfriend fell out with her sister and apparently visited her (with presents), only to be told that she didn't want to see her and they came away with the presents. Lo and behold, my daughter's presents were for a baby boy. His girlfriend was telling me about how she felt about this trip a few months ago, and accidentally let drop about all the times she and my brother go up to visit her sister and nephew and babysit.

I'm now starting to see that my brother is very dismissive of my daughter. The other day she innocently commented that she thought he was a farmer because he has so many animals (cat and 2 birds). He got very dismissive (quite sneery) and odd with her and started responded "Oh thats your logic is it?" (strange response to a 4 year old). On her birthday he seemed very sneery about the whole thing, wouldn't touch any of the birthday food and hardly talked the whole time. When I showed him a pair of trainers that I had bought her for a sports day they were dismissed as 'chavy.'

My mum let drop last year that she had said to him "I've never asked you how you feel about (my daughter)." To which he responded "Oh don't try and get me on that one." I tried to probe a bit further, but she got all vague.

I have searched and searched for reasons why my brother may have problems with my daughter and can only think that my brother is concerned about my mum's will (he is very money orientated). I have this feeling that my mother will probably leave everything in her will to my daughter when she dies (I don't know this for sure, but my hunches are usually right). I don't have much of a problem with this, as we are not close and I don't expect anything from her in her will and have told her this when she mentioned her will. I wonder if my brother thinks that this will happen too and is taking this out on my daughter or whether there are more reasons to all this than what I can see.

What do people think?

I don't have any ideas on why your brother's behaviour has changed - it does seem a little odd.

Do you have a good time with him when you see him without your daughter?

I think in any couple it is fairly usual for the couple to be closer to the woman's family than the male's side

horrid generalisation but true in the main

I think that nieces and nephews aren't as endlessly fascinating as parents feel they should be (I have 8 nieces and nephews my side, and 24 DH's side) .. I would never expect my family to act in any particular way to my children apart from have a slightly higher level of generic affection for them than a child on the street

I think it might all change when he has children anyway

Do you think your brother & his GF have perhaps been ttc to no avail?

I know my SIL & BIL got all shitty with us after we had the kids as they were ttc. They still barely talk to us & dd is 5.

Does his girlfriend want children and is jealous of your DD?
Could you ask him why the sudden change of heart, why he is distancing himself? Perhaps a letter?

Hmmm.... to be honest, it sounds like your brother might feel a bit nagged by your family.
He seems to be in a serious relationship, and therefore that is his main priority.
The replacement of the photographs is odd, and I can see why you were upset by it - it is certainly very tactless of him, and perhaps he needs to stand up to his girlfriend a bit more?
His comment "Oh don't try and get me on that one" suggests that he feels there is an issue, and perhaps he is embarrassed that he has not spent much time with your DD, but knows that any discussion about it will lead to an argument?
Perhaps you could try and get closer to his girlfriend, so he doesn't feel like he has to choose between her and his family?
re "His girlfriend accidentally let drop about all the times she and my brother go up to visit her sister and nephew and babysit" - why would it be accidental - surely they can see who ever they want, when they want?
Why don't you invite them over for dinner one evening, and have a really relaxed time.
It sounds like maybe you had a lot of your brother's attention when he was single, and now he is having a tough time finding a balance between his old life and his new one.
I think if everyone stops pressuring him, he will be able to find that balance.

Thanks for some nice responses! I'm not sure that they are trying to conceive. He's told me before that she has drink problems which are turning him off her (and incidentally she has told me the same about him!). But then (as I suppose in most relationships) things change again and everything is hunkydory again!

I've never mentioned the issue with him before, just keep picking up on very negative vibes towards my daughter. My mum just made the one comment. With a very few exceptions (we bump into him or he asks me to come round and collect something) we rarely ever go round to their house. He has not been round to our house for 7 months. However, he does visit my mum and his girlfriend's sister even though we are en route to their houses.

I was only surprised about him babysitting his girlfriend's nephew as I presumed that because he never offered or showed any interest in my daughter, he was just a bit anti-kids (which is up to him of course). I then saw this completely different side to him where he was prepared to give up time to go and babysit for his girlfriend's sister, buy expensive presents for him etc.???

Perhps you need to spend a bit more adult-oriented time with your brother. Maybe as he doesn't have children of his own he feels that his relationship with you has diminished since your dd arrived, and now he is only thought of as an uncle...?

Forget about the babysitting issue, why not just ask him and gf if they'd like to come round for dinner - or even better all go out somewhere?

Mumto3girls

My mum rang me the other day to say that my brother had suggested that we all go to Chessington Park Adventures as a day out for my daughter. When I raised this with him the other dayand said we'd like to go, his girlfriend got very strange and said that that it had been his idea as a treat for her because she likes to go on big dipper rides and that we'd been asked because it kept the ticket prices down?? Then he said he'd changed his mind and we wouldn't be going after all.

Must admit, I feel like giving up on him (terrible admission but just being honest), but my daughter wants to see her Uncle and it would be a very difficult one to try and explain to her.

ClariceB..sorry I don't know you're circumstances, you don't mention DP/DH is your posts...do you have one and if so how does he and your bro get on?

One of my three bros has gone a little strange since I had my dd's. He does still send them gifts etc but he always has a strange tone of voice whilst discussing them. I think it's because there's a feeling of demotion in his eyes from our mum. My girls are the only grandchildren and they are the centre of my mum's universe. I think my bro feels that sometimes it's too much and he prefers to turn converstaions away from them and their antics and back to what the 'grownups' are doing.

There is nothing particularly that makes me think it is about the inheritance. That to me sounds like you are clutching at straws re an explanation. It sounds much more like he is allowing his gf to dictate to him. I would have another go at an adult oriented get together with him and see if anything comes of that.

My guess would be that he liked the idea of having a niece/nephew but, as you thought, doesn't really like kids or get on with them, and that the effort for his partner's nephew has been driven by her rather than by him. He might also be jealous and feel that his relationship with you and with your mother has been changed since your DD came along. Or his partner may not like you and is distancing him from your family rather than from your DD in particular.

Thanks for these replies. I think there is probably a bit of all of them that makes me think, yes thats the issue.

I have really tried with his girlfriend, but even my brother has admitted that she finds it difficult to get on with people/ imagines slights/ is very sensitive etc. However, I keep wondering (if its in fact me that she in fact has a problem with) what I've done? We rarely see them to have a problem (if you see what I mean!).

I don't know if it is a case of her thinking, well I don't have any contact with my family, so why should he (my brother)? I always feel so awkward when we have seen them, only stay about 10 mins max., make my excuses and leave. She'll often just go and sit upstairs in another room or sit behind her lap top not talking and looking very disapproving! This combined with my brothers behaviour towards my daughter just makes me really sad!

Would you ever consider asking his gf round on her own? or a cinema nigt out/shopping trip?

/just to get to know her....?

Well, funnily enough I was round there a while back (my brother texted me to pick something up) and my brother wasn't there. She was quite friendly and started telling me about all her problems with her sister, dad and my brother. I was trying to ease my way out as I didn't want to be stuck in the middle of problems between her and my brother.

She made mention of "going out for a drink sometime", but it was difficult to tell if it was just one of those things that people just say (if you know what I mean!). However, on all other occasions she has been very off, even to the point of rudeness (including the last time). She always looks very shocked that I/we are there in fact!

It's very difficult to read between the lines and get an idea of what could be the problem here.
Perhaps she ws happir to see you then because she was on her own..perhaps other times you have visited she has felt that you are intruding on her time with her dp...who knows?

I would try and build a friendship with her, your posts do suggest you have a very poor opinion of her and maybe that could be picked up on in RL by her and your brother?

I have tried really hard with her - gone out and bought her really nice birthday and christmas presents, taken cakes round for her, always shown an interest in her work etc. However, I couldn't stand and listen to her running down my brother, as it would put me in a very difficult position with him if he found out! If anything, its my brother who has a poor opinion of her (at times!).

I had a similar situation with BIL he had been in the relationship when dd was born and he seen her once in our house from birth to 2 years old when I was pregnant with ds (11 months) and is relationship ended. He did see her at family occassions and stuff on top of that and always seemed pleased to see her/us. I always used to get peed off ad BIL saying that he had free will was an adult and would come round if he actually really wanted to, they too spent a lot of time with HER family but rarely with any of his side.

When the ralationship ended I realised how much of his behaviour was actually down to her and his devotion to the relationship. She hated all of us but then she was not a nice person and nobody much liked her either. She obviously in one way or another managed to stop him seeing us and I have my suspicions as to why she was particularly against visiting us.

What I am saying is that if this is only since the relationship started could she be having more of a hand in it than your brother.

Oh and the only person they did visit be it not very regularly was MIL and he had not excuse for not even popping in to say his for a inute cause I can look out my window and see her front door.

Adath
Its just so bizarre isn't it?

Must admit, if he was behaving like this and I didn't have a DD, I wouldn't be so bothered and would let him get on with it. However, its the "Why doesn't Uncle X ever come and see us?" questions that I find really hard to deal with and then get quite upset by it all (in private).

I am slightly suspicious that my brother's girlfriend has fallen out with her sister, brother-in-law and dad (all are refusing contact with her). I bumped into her sister when out shopping once with DD and she was with her son, and I found her really pleasant and chatty, but she is described to me by my brother and girlfriend as a 'game player', 'vicious' etc.

What were your suspicions as to why your brother's girlfriend was against you (if you don't mind me asking?).

Well I kind of knew she didn't like me anyway and i didn't particularly like her I used to wrok with her before I met DP.

IT was just her attitude really she was never outright rude to any of dp/bil family but there was always just something there if that makes sense that made everyone just know she hated us all. It could be just a fleeting look you caught or one of those things people say that you could never actually say were horrible but really were.
They were the same though and spent far more time with her family than any of BIL's her sister had children that they spent far more time with than ours there was pitures in their house of them and none of ours. I always kind of blamed BIL as well though because until they split up I never knew him without being in a relationship with her and knowing him now and how many pictures he has of the children and how often we see him although he now live 150 miles away and we hear from him in between.

The thing that made me compare it to my situation was the remark you made about pictures how there is none of your kids no kind of suggests she may have some doing in this, your brother had them up before she came on the scene so even if he is not a children person he is obviously still fond of them and proud to have their pics up but suddenly she is here and they are gone. IT is just the sort of thing this woman would have done. BIL always spent time with his parents in some way or another but nobidy else in his family but seen hers daily.

I don't think his reaction to your daughter was that strane though because BIL would probably say something similar and not have a clue that it is a bizarre response because he really doesn't "know" children and would not really know what is appropriate or not.

I have never asked BIL why he never came around while he was with this woman we have skirted round the subject and he has said quite passionately that there is no way his niece and nephew will ever be without their uncle again but for whatever reason, blind love threats from her whatever he chose to for a time partially cut out his family while in this relationship and although heartbroken when they split he has now realised how controlling she was and how miserable he was.

It would be a hard thing to broach with your brother because it could add even more distance but it may well not be him choosing this path it may be her.

Oh and part of mys suspicions about her particularly avoiding us is actually to do with us having children, she was not TOTALLY awful I am sure and she does love kids but it would have killed her actually being nice to our children and maybe even liking them because she hated BIL family so much.
They are an odd lot don't get me wrong and I do tear my hair out with the daily but they are dp's family and I would never ever come between them.

Well at least I'm not imagining it all!

Keep wondering whether to try and talk to him about this (but know it will end up in an argument) or just tell DD that he's moved abroad or something and make no further contact. DD just doesn't understand it all - wants to invite him to Easter party, send him cards etc.

Well he's now texted me to ask me if I'll go and stay in his house to look after his cat for 2 weeks while they go on holiday. Of course, not a problem to transport young child and own cat to another house (along with half of the house possessions needed to support child)............ Just unbelievable.

All families are different, I know, but unfortunately in my family it has transpired that when your children are born everyone is ga ga for a while. They give lots of time and attention to the babies, but once they get a bit older they lose interest. Maybe that's what has happened here.

In fact we hardly ever see my brother at all and I'm sure my children would not even recognise him if we passed him in the street.

Sad but true.

at the cat sitting.
I always battled with myself over what to do about BIL and every time someone referred to him to DD as Uncle .... I always said no he is just ..... to her she doens't know him so no way is he uncle she knows the neighbours better than she knows him.
I did get to the stage where I refused to have the smallest bit of contact with him so as not to allow dd to get close to him. In the end our situation all worked out and they split up and he is very much part of the childrens lives despite the fact he lives 150 miles away now rather than the 10 he did then.

So you have any impression at all that it may be her and not your Brother?