Advice about childminder/pick-ups.

[Onelastpage]

My daughter (3 in August) is lovely... except when she's not. She is completely frank about preferring her Dad/DH and hates interrupting play for any reason.

3 days a week she goes to a childminder(CM). She's been since she was 13mths and we were initially very happy with her. She writes a very detailed log-book with 3-4 pages of 'then DD played with this and then with that' and a list of food eaten etc. She also sends regular texts of what she is doing which were very reassuring when I first went back to work. She's been really flexible with us when I've had work commitments which have meant changing days/ got DD a present from holiday etc etc

As DD got older and her speech began/ got better, we realised that chocolate treats and TV, though never in the book, were definitely part of her day - we didn't mind this too much (we watch a fair amount of CBeebies and cake making is a favourite activity so would have been hypocritical) but did feel a bit off about the fact it's never written down. An example conversation when she was just 2 went:

Me: I spent ages at the weekend trying to work out who Noodles is!
CM: Oh?
Me: I worked out it was from Mickey's Clubhouse in the end! I've never seen it.
CM: Me neither!
Me: Well she only has access to a TV in two places...

We generally let this stuff go as DD loves her so much. She's also very sensitive to criticism (very hurt feelings) and so we haven't been as forthright as perhaps we should have been.

So anyway, I'm already irritated with certain things. In the last year, DD has begun to refuse to come home - she drops to the floor and sobs 'I wanted Daddy to pick me up' when I get there and 'I don't like mine house/you' Refusing to hold hands on the street etc. I find all this very hurtful but try not to let it show.

Initially we dealt with it by trying to make it a game and placate her 'racing' Daddy home, or stopping by the park on the way. But actually I feel like that has made it worse and I need to just say 'I'm your Mum. You have to come home with me.' She's always fine when we get 2 minutes down the street.

The CM just makes things worse in my opinion. She flaps around saying 'she's never like this with me' and offering to me get her a treat to eat in the buggy (one time she offered a breadstick and DD started demanding a Freddo - which she then started to go get. I said no to that as DD was very rude and I don't like the idea she needs bribing to come home. Also, how does she know what Freddos are to ask by name? This was when I found out about 'the treat box' - she's 2, there are full chocolate bars in there). When I finally get DD to start walking up the street, CM stands on her drive shouting 'I love you' until DD runs back to give her a hug or just sits down and refuses to move. I feel like she prolongs the whole horrible process.

Friday was just awful. I said 'No, I'm not indulging this. DD, that's not a kind thing to say - you need to come here.' CM still offered her a treat and stood in the drive - even after I'd asked her to go back inside. My daughter got very distressed (though was, true to form, fine in 5 minutes) and older children from the setting came out to stare and whisper with CM - probably about how I was upsetting DD.

I just want to say she doesn't behave like this with me either! We have tantrums occasionally and she does prefer Daddy to me (big issue for me but she appear to love me at other times) but those incidents can be resolved quicker if I stand firm and I honestly feel the CM's approach is making things worse.

We picked a pre-school based on CM being able to pick-up :( I can't bear the thought of seperating DD from someone she loves so much - just one more reason I'm the big bad Mummy. DH is supportive but won't make a decision (or realistically search for alternatives).

I also should highlight I'm going through a really stressful time at work and on a couple of other fronts at the moment so may be over-reacting.

(I know this is far too long! Sorry).

Sorry, my actual question is:

What would you do? How can I cope with this better?

Am I just jealous of CM/DH and DD's relationship? I mean, I am jealous but I don't think it's just that.

Is my 'just pick her up and ignore the crying' approach really that harsh?

Maybe ask the cm to stay in the house on collection so dd sees a closed door as you put her in the buggy. . Cm done and dm is here now!! No getting into a discussion with either of them just walk off. .
And tell her you would prefer full details even if they include TV and chocolate in future!

Bless you, maybe you are a little bit jealous but that's ok.

The chocolate and tv, I would just say 'could you let me know' if it bothers you? It wouldn't bother me I don't think tbh

It sounds like maybe the cm is trying to make the transition to going home easier but in a clumsy way it's worse? I've had this with my dd at the after school club. She often won't want to come etc and the ladies will indulge her and give her an ice pop or something.

I think the cm having a good relationship worth your child is worth putting up with some minor issues

Yeah, I realise that it should be just that simple - I've tried to say that before but somehow we just revert to the same patterns. But perhaps I need to send an e-mail or text to formalise it (then I can look back and be sure I wasn't ambiguous in any way). I didn't really trust myself to say anything more on Friday because I was pretty cross at how she was ignoring my suggestions.

I also thought I should let her know in the mornings which of us will be doing pick-up so she can prepare DD (and she can get over her disappointment before I get there).

That's always been my view isittime, that these were minor issues... I just got so frustrated on Friday but maybe I do need to keep a sense of perspective.

I think that's odd behaviour from the childminder to be honest. My DD is nearly 15 months old. Some times she cries when I first pick her up, I think because she's a little overwhelmed by it all but she settles and is much younger then your DD. My CM however just hands her over, has a little chat with me about her day and then waves her off in the buggy. Shouting "I love you" repeatedly from the drive seems a bit intense?! Not to mention really unhelpful given the situation. I would ask her, over the phone perhaps or at another time that isn't the pick up, that you want a quick goodbye and then her to stay in the house. I think you should take control of the situation for sure and agree that the CMs approach to this is clumsy at best.

Yeah the lying thing would annoy me too, not the tv or chocolate thing in itself as much as the insulting my intelligence by not being upfront about it.

I have to say having been a CM that pick up times are the worst times of the day, kids change immediately they see their parents and behave in a way that they wouldn't have done all day with me and most likely different to how they behave at home too. I think she is just trying to make it easier for you but not realising it makes it harder! My tactic with particularly difficult children (just difficult at pick time) was to have them ready to go, shoes on, coat on, bag packed, even sometimes strapped in the pushchair. So that the parent could just pick them up and go. Obviously I discussed this first as I didn't was any it to look like I couldn't wait to get rid of them!
Maybe that would be a better solution for you?

With regards tv I used to put it on sometimes when they needed down time and always when it was hometime as without fail the other mindees would all mess about as soon as they heard the door knock too and tv at least kept them occupied while I spoke to parents and go others ready to go.

I think you need to have a proper meeting with the cm, discuss your concerns and come up with a solution you can both stick to and work together on.

Have sent this text:

Hi CM, will you have ten minutes at pick-up on Monday to have a brief chat? Just to agree how we're going to approach pick-up time in future. We can do another day if easier. Thanks!

I would find that quite weird and very unhelpful: I would expect a childminder to be very used to managing this sort of situation and placating the child with chocolate doesn't seem a very professional way to approach it.
This sounds more like behaviour I'd expect from an overindulgent grandparent than a childcare professional.
It's hardly surprising that DD continues to make a fuss each time if she knows that fuss = chocolate/extra attention from CM! It might be tricky to achieve in practice but ideally you want a strategy where she is rewarded for coming away calmly - would she understand a star chart?
I also think you need to speak to the CM and agree a plan to stop CM flapping and exacerbating the situation but just before pick up when she has other children around and your DD is listening might not be ideal, especially as it sounds like CM might take quite a bit of persuasion to change her behaviour. Could you phone her at a quieter time for her?

I'm glad other people think it's intense. I'm glad she cares about her, of course, but all the last minute hugging feels like it's much more an affirmation for CM than DD (who is surely better off calm and getting home). She is exactly like an indulgent grandparent!

I honestly don't mind the TV or chocolate but I wish she was upfront about them!

Ideally (this is the plan but he doesn't know where he'll be working tomorrow so timing may be a problem) DH will be there at pick-up to whisk away DD and DD should be the last one there on a Monday. If he can't be there then we might end up trying for another time.

My plans (to discuss with CM) are:
No more bribes!
No more waving goodbye outside the house - we can at least restrict the drama to inside.
I'll let CM know in the morning who is doing pick-up so DD doesn't have an excuse for the dramatics when it's me and not Daddy - might change occasionally as we both have jobs where we might end up having to come from somewhere other than our offices (so end up panic ringing the other) but should be manageable.
The Star Chart is a good idea; last time we tried it she was quite a bit younger and she lost interest but she does love a sticker. Should there be a reward for 3 stickers? I'm thinking a Mr Men book/ CBeebies magazine or similar. I realise this is a bribe as well but at least it's a positive bribe.
I'll start trying to get there slightly early again so we can do the 5 minutes, 3 minutes, 1 minute count down (works quite well at bedtime, mostly, so she can wind down games). This will be a challenge time-wise at the moment but we can't go on the way we are!

I'll also ask her for her suggestions - I know it doesn't sound like it but I do respect her. I have a friend whose kids go to the school she drops off at and she says that CM's relationships with all the children are really good (even when I'm not looking IYSWIM). I really value that - which is perhaps why all this is so frustrating.

What did she reply to your text Onelastpage?

She did! And we met yesterday... DH took DD off (with her perfectly happily telling him how she wasn't crying so she could get a sticker - and that she'd get a Mr. Men book if she got 4 stickers - no fuss at all so hopefully that can continue!).

The tone of the conversation was very pleasant - I spoke more about wanting a better plan going forward so we could work together than saying I found her current approach unhelpful. I don't think the past matters too much as long as the daily performances stop!

We're basically going to do everything I described below (she did keep saying 'that's good because she's in charge at the moment' which is frustrating because I didn't feel like it was me encouraging that - but still, looking to the future...). We're going for a quick goodbye and closing the door (no more waving on the drive - yay!).

We're also going to try and have more catch-ups without DD there, similar to yesterday, so we don't have to worry about talking at pick-up because we'll have a bigger review later. The first one will be in a couple of weeks.

I'm hopeful we'll see an improvement and we can have more constructive conversations! Thank you for all your support. I can give constructive feedback at work, no problem, but I find it so much harder anywhere else!

Sounds positive although it does also sound like this CM has form for saying one thing and doing another...!
Do you think she's had another parent in the past who has had a hissy fit if their child cries and has complained about a firmer approach from CM?

You know what OP, the most important thing is that your daughter is happy and the CM has genuine affection for her. I don't care about much else from my childminder - an affectionate indulgent grandparent is pretty much perfect childcare in my eyes.

You sound a bit cross about some extremely minor things - giving a 3 yr old a little treat to calm her down at leaving time - well, surely meant well eh?

It's so lovely when we mums can find someone who cares about our child - not sure if it's worth getting het up about all this.

I do accept your point - and I did say in my OP that I was concerned I might be over-reacting due to other stresses - and that's why we haven't said anything previously.

However, in my defence, it has been an accumulation of minor things (stuff around DD's diet bothers me particularly because she suffered from painful constipation for a while - though that wasn't chocolate) over quite a lot time period. The scenes on the doorstep have been terrible and only seemed to be getting worse and more prolonged and I was worried DD might start behaving like that in other circumstances - so I did feel this had crossed a line into a serious issue. It did frustrate me when CM didn't follow my lead on how I wanted to handle it.

Still, she has many other really positive qualities and I am much happier having had a proper conversation about it. I do appreciate her good relationship with my daughter and she clearly has a gift for making children feel comfortable and loved. So stewing over the weekend probably was an over-reaction.

A long time period, obviously.

I should also say - I never thought it wasn't well meant. CM is a very caring person. I just felt it was clear that a) it wasn't working to stop the behaviour and b) I was trying to take a different approach.

But alls well that ends well. I'm genuinely feeling much more positive and hopefully managed to suggest an alternative approach without insulting her.