Tantrums - but not the usual kind - please help

[lisalisa]

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very difficult to advise without really experiencing it from your perspective- but if you are really worried it may be worth getting a referral from the doctor for a paediatric check up (this will take some time- so go for it now)
we had nightmares with dd1 who is now 5- her tantrums were absolutely legend- got to the extent that I didn't dare venturing outdoors with her.
We had gone through quite a lot of changes when she was 2 (moved/changed nursery/pregnant/baby/ she had chickenpox etc) all in a very short period of time... in hindsight this probably contributed....
nevertheless my daughter has a highly sensitive temperament, and this is something we are having to adapt to.
What you need to do is look after yourself- as these sort of tanmtrums/children are absolutely draining... try and get as much help as you can...
Remember the mantra...It WILL get better!
Thinking of you XX

Hi Lisalisa, I am having exactly the same probs with my 4 1/2 yr old Dd at the mo. She has been having tantrums since about 18mths old, and like your Dd they seem to be increasing not decreasing.
I have also asked my H.V for help as Dd's behaviour is starting to effect Ds's behaviour.
The H.V reffered her for a hearing test which she passed with flying colours, so now i am waiting to see if the H.V can suggest anything else.

I too have tried all the methods you describe with differing results. Most will work for a while but then Dd soon gets wise to what i'm up to.

Can't really offer any advice as i haven't figured it out myself yet. Just thought you'd like to know you aren't alone.

If my H.V offers me any good stratigies i'll let you know.

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Oh Lisalisa, how upsetting for you.

I think Twigletts advice sounds pretty spot on. Esp the bit about:
Do you have a room that's got nothing interesting in it ... when she starts pick her up and carry her in there and leave her there for 3 minutes

You should stand the other side of th dorr and not let her out. You shopuld lreave her in there one minute for every year of her life.
Warn her you'll do it. Give her two chances. 'Come to the table and eat your dinner now please', and then 'if you don't come to the dineer and eat your dinner now i'll have to send you out of the room' and when she still refuses carry her to the room and say 'you can come out in a minute', wait for 3 mins and then try the coming to table request agin.

Reward good behaviour with stickers and when she has 5 stickers, or whatever amount you want to set she gets a treat, a comic or something, not sweets?? if she is naughty you can take a sticker away. Keep the chart on her bedroom wall next to her bed or something so it's in her space not the ohter childrens.

HTH

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sounds like she is feeling very insecure, and angry... what all the "experts" advised me was to try and give my dd her own quality time at some point during the day - so just you and her... and let her lead the play etc..., just comment positively on what she is doing- no critical comments etc.
It is not always easy to do (believe me)but it sounds like she is screaming out for your attention...and getting it- but the wrong sort...
hth.

That would be great Lisa.

Only difference with our Dd's is that mine is an absolute angel at nursery, which makes me feel even more like it must be something i am doing wrong.

Finally one of her nursery teachers witnessed one of her more milder tantrums the other day, and was very shocked. They almost admitted that they thought i must have been exagerating.

My elder Dd also gets left out quite alot due to Dd2's tantrums.

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Lisalisa,

Have you seen Little Angels on ITV? They run story after story of tantrums and bad behaviour like this. Time out (putting the child in a room for 1 minute for each year of their life) and stickers for kids at your little one's age group really do work absolute wonders.

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Maybe you missed my post so here it is agian!

Oh Lisalisa, how upsetting for you.

I think Twigletts advice sounds pretty spot on. Esp the bit about:
Do you have a room that's got nothing interesting in it ... when she starts pick her up and carry her in there and leave her there for 3 minutes

You should stand the other side of the door and not let her out. You should leave her in there one minute for every year of her life.
Warn her you'll do it. Give her two chances. 'Come to the table and eat your dinner now please', and then 'if you don't come to the table and eat your dinner now i'll have to send you out of the room' and when she still refuses carry her to the room and say 'you can come out in a minute', wait for 3 mins, holding door shut and then try the coming to table request agin.

Reward good behaviour with stickers and when she has 5 stickers, or whatever amount you want to set she gets a treat, a comic or something, not sweets?? if she is naughty you can take a sticker away. Keep the chart on her bedroom wall next to her bed or something so it's in her space not the ohter childrens.

HTH

Your Dd really does sound so much like mine it's spooky.

Does she play up when you take her out somewhere ??

I have had to stop taking Dd out with me unless completly unavoidable, as she would just run off and as i have the buggy too i cannot stop her.
She has run in the road on occasions too.

Oh posted on the other thread too about the twin thingy. Yes Dd1 is very sensitive and can be very anxious and seem quite lonly at times too.

it doesn't sound like an autistic type tantrum to me- mainly because it seems to be over things like getting her own way- which is ENTIRELY normal. DS1's meltdowns are usually internal iyswim- so he kind of explodes because o stuff going on within him rather than becuase of something external (he will complain and have a hissy fit oevr exteral stuff but not a meltdown).

As regards removing from the room. Just hold the door. I do- and he does manage to open it sometimes- he's very strong. In his case I only shut the door for about 30 seconds- but with a normally developing child they say 1 minute for every year of thier life. Once the time is up I see that as a new start, so the door is opened calmly and often I thenI tend t say something like "if you pinch/get out of bed/whatever then the door will be shit. If you stay in bed the door will be open" I may say it several times (although mainly because of his langauge problems just to give him a chance to get the gist). If the behaviour is repeated (and at the moment this tends to be for pinching) we repeat the whole process. Sometimes he's in and out of the door.

His autistic type tantrums are very different- he loses himself completely and has no control. He had one tonight becuase he was very tired in the end I dragged him to the tent under his bed and squeezed his hands and legs and rubbed his tummy for about 20 minutes. He calmed down a bit - but was stll screaming, although once he's stopped hitting himself I left him- then he slept quite quickly.

OMG the door will be shut bad typo

lisalisa, all the advice on here has been good. My son is 2 years 9 months and has had tantrums for about a year and 2 months. He's had various assessments and doesn't have a social communications disorder (eg autism, add) but has a language disorder. The speech assessor saw one of his minor tantrums and was quite worried. She also said that she can tell his vocal cords have been affected by his screaming.

Just establishing my creds here . Like you, I'd tried all the usual suspects for dealing with tantrums. What's ended up helping is something my SIL suggested and the speech assessor refined. It's basically this: praise them like mad. My SIL said to praise him for things that he's about to do, even if it's just saying (as he's opening a door) "Son, could you open the door please" then immediately follow that with lavish praise for opening the door. That has helped his general temperment a bit and mine a lot. The speech assessor said that instead of completely ignoring a tantrum, I should tell him that it's unacceptable to be screaming and then ignore it. After that, at the very first opportunity (ie long deep breath), start praising him for stopping the tantrum. She did say it's a case of "meticulous timing"; I don't want to reinforce the tantrums. It's been working, though! I praise him for not tantrumming, too.

Instead of putting her in a room, could you put yourself and your daughter in a room and do something fun? Prepare ahead. I haven't tried that technique, my son is a scream, lie down and beat the floor type guy, which is easier.

I've got an older son, too (he's 6 1/2) and he realizes that his little brother has ishoos, so is willing to give him a bit of leeway with food, especially. So my youngest doesn't eat the same things as the rest of us.

Hope this doesn't sound all cool, calm and collected. Last November, my sweet husband took my youngest to his parents (from Switzerland to the US) for 2 weeks to give me a break. It was an emergency evacuation. I'm on ADs and my GP has taken over my youngest's case (in terms of finding therapy, more tests, etc) as it's the root cause of the depression. Pathetic, I know, people have a lot more to deal with and handle it better, but... there you go!

Thinking of you.

argh, just rereading. My son's tantrums are exacerbated by his language disorder, but basically a behavioural issue and need to be dealt with as such.

And this only works if you child responds well to praise. Some kids don't, I know. (It's not a parenting thing, it's the way they are.)

I think the bit about children being angels at nursery and then devils at home is fairly common. My friends who have school age kids say exactly the same thing. It's as though the children know they must be well behaved at school or nursery, and then let off steam when they get back in familiar surroundings. Although I'm sure this doesn't help, it actually means they are really comfortable with you, because they feel they can let off steam!

I am having similar issues with my dd1 who is 3. She has a new sister (5 months), plus my dh has just had to start working away from home during the week, having recently been made redundant. She is extremely bright, very articulate and also very sensitive. I know she's picking up on my tension and lonliness, and is also missing her dad a huge amount (he has been really hands on since she was born).

I have been making a big thing of what a big girl she is when she manages to do something herself, and she's recently taken this on board in a major way -really asserting her independence. Although it is difficult to let her do everything, I am currently trying to let her, as this helps us to find things to praise! However, one of the down sides is that she seems to have a corresponding need to be really babyish the rest of the time (talking in a really infuriating baby voice, shouting and spitting).

Because she's so articulate and also tall, I sometimes forget she's 3. Also I've become aware that I want her to be more adult because I've got another baby to look after now. This is just unfair of me, so I'm trying to remember to give her lots of cuddles and kisses too.

I found the Little Angels programme 2 very helpful in this respect - like the mum there I tend to change my behaviour depending on which daughter I'm dealing with. I'm now trying very hard not to do this.

It sounds like your family has had a lot of change too - particularly your illness and hospitalisation. I think this can be very worrying for children, as they wonder whether mum is going to come back. Not that you could have done anything different, but it may explain things.

HTH