Would love some advice on how to deal with DD's lies......

[Nixz]

DD is 6, she is extremely sensitive and gets very emotional and angry with things so i feel i have to tread carefully.

DD is very 'deep' and trying to talk to her is hard, if its something she doesnt want to hear she will shout and cry and work herself up into such a state, she tells you nothing!
Anyway, sometimes she wets herself because she doesnt go to the loo in time, even when there is a toilet handy. For example, yesterday we were out and she was crossing her legs, desperate for the loo. Off she went with her friend but because her friend went on first, dd decided she didnt want to go anymore because she didnt want to be the 'last' to go out. Consequently, she had wet knickers for most of the day (i didnt know any of this until her friend told me later on). This happens a lot, sometimes she sneezes/laughs etc and 'dribbles' a bit.
I have shouted/punished/talked/tried ideas/rewards etc to try and encourage her to go regulary and not leave it late as she was staring to smell and i was concerned for her health - it hasnt worked. However, a few weeks ago i found 22 pairs of knickers stuffed under her bed (i had cleaned her room about 5 days earlier and they were not there then) all of them covered in dried wee. Well, i went mad at first then calmed down and have constantly been reiterating to her that if she has an accident, she needs to change her knickers but lying and hiding the knickers is definately NOT allowed. She doesnt even have to tell me, she can just go and wash and change herself.
This morning i struggled to find any knickers for her, i mentioned the hiding of the Knickers thing again and she blatantly lied about hiding them as she has done all weekend. Well, guess what - i have just found about 11 pairs of knickers stuffed under her wardrobe! I really dont know what to do!
My first reaction is to calmly say that she isnt in trouble for wetting herself but hiding them and lying to me is wrong and for that she cant play out tonight.
Please advise - i didnt think she would do it again.

It's probably embarrassment. If she's as sensitive as you say she is, she's probably mortified and frightened that she will be in trouble.

I think you would be right to say - calmly - that she's not in trouble for wetting herself, but that you are disappointed that she has been hiding them and lying about it. I wouldn't punish her this time - apart from the fact that I think punishments need to be immediate, not later, I think that her embarrassment would be punishment enough. I would, though, make it quite clear that if it happens again that the punishment will be X, Y or Z.

I'd also have a chat with her about keeping herself clean and using the toilet when she needs to. She may not realise how smelly stale wee is so tell her, let her know that you don't want her to feel smelly and dirty for her sake, not for yours.

I'd also want to make sure that there wasn't an underlying problem - dd went through a phase like this, and it was because she was terrified of using the school toilets because someone had told her they were haunted.

She is probably hiding them because she is embarrassed about the wetting, rather than deliberatly being naughty.

Have you seen your gp about this in case there is an underlying medical problem? The odd accident when you are out and about might be understandable but 22 wet knickers in 5 days sounds like something else might be going on....

Raspberryberet - this is the second time it has happened in a month though. We had lots of little chats about how important it is that she doesnt lie to Mummy as that will get her in big trouble. She know that if she puts her Knickers in the laundry then i probably wont notice them or may make a comment like "Theres lots of wet knickers in her, try harder to get to the toilet in time sweetheart" (which i have said lots of times)

Also, DP, my parents and I have all had little chats with her about cleanliness, the smell etc etc which started years ago. I even asked her to smell some once so she know what i meant
i have bought her pretty knickers, special wipes, showed her how to put knockers in the washing machine.

KTeepee - I have been to the Drs and the school nurse and as horrible as it sounds, she just cant be bothered to go to the toilet. She will sit with wet knickers on for most of the day and she is not bothered!
She hates baths and is a very mucky child on the whole actually [sock]

LOL Thats Knickers in the wash not 'knockers'

Mmm it sounds like a tricky one, and hard to believe that something isn't causing it, rather than sheer laziness. Was she late potty training? What about at night - does she wet the bed?

She was potty trained by about 3 with some accidents and about 4 when she was fully dry in the night.
I know it sounds like im just angry at her by saying its laziness but ive witnessed it on several occasions - its a lot of defiance aswell.
If we are going on a long journey and i ask her to use the loo before we go, all hell can break loose because she wont use it.
Ive asked her if she gets tummy aches, does it feel funny when she goes for a wee etc but she just says 'No mummy, leave me alone" and wont talk about it. I think if it hurt her to use the loo she would cry and tell me.
Im worried that she feels she can just blatantly lie to me over and over again though, even though she knows she will get found out - again!
I know aswell that when she comes home from school, as soon as she kows that i know - she will get so worked up that i wont be able to say anything to her as she wont be in any state to understand or even listen to what im saying!

Could it be attention-seeking? Does she get plenty of your time otherwise?

Well if she's dry during the night it's obviously not a bladder-control issue. Could you ask to be referred to a child psychologist if it doesn't improve? How would she respond if you threatened to make her wear pull-ups (say on long car journeys or other times when a toilet is not readily available) if she doesn't go before you leave the house?

It sounds to me like you have gotten into a situation where there is far too much emphasis on her knickers!

Ignore, ignore, ignore and carry on ignoring it, until it sorts itself out - and it will do so very quickly once all of the attention she is gaining through this goes.

Look for dirty knickers in all the likely places every couple of days, wash them and put them back in her drawer.

Do not mention wetting, knickers, smells, health anything at all to do with the issue.

At the same time find two or three things that she does well, and heap loads and loads and loads of praise and attention on to these things. To the point of ridiculousness. She will learn to get postive attention rather than seek negative reactions.

I'd give it around 6 to 8 weeks and I bet you the problem will be solved

Yes, she gets plenty of my time - she gets lots of attention off dp and grandparents aswell. I think if it was an attention thing, she wouldnt be so secretive about it.
We have seen school nurse and child psychologist and community mental health team as DD is very hypo/anxious/emmotional/defiant but they have all said that they think she will be ok as long as we are consistent with her and she knows how far she can go etc - all positive reinforcement/ignore negative etc - we have been doing this for years!
I think it feels quite harsh to say that she is doing it out of laziness or defiance but it seems to be the only thing that we and the proffesionals can come up with!
I just dont know how to handle these lies!
For about the last 6 months she has begun to lie, most of the time to justify why she is doing things eg: "im not eating this sweet mummy, im just holding it in my mouth" but i think most kids will be asserting their independance quite strongly at this age - i really didnt think she would lie ablout this again though after the fuss i made of her lying last time.
It upsets me as this morning i actually looked her in the eye and asked if there might be any knickers in her room that she wanted to put in the laundry and she said no!

Soapbox - appreciate what you are saying but this has been an ongoing problem for years and the main thing that causes it is because she doesnt go the loo when she should!
DD gets lots and lots of positve reinforcment and we try to ignore the bad on the whole as this is what we have been advised to do by Psych. However, i really feel that i need to say something to her to stress the importance of not lying. She knew she could put her knickers in the laundry or even in the washing machine.

I wonder what she would do if she came home and tried to hide some more wet knickers and realised that the others were gone??
Maybe thats what you were saying Soapbox - that i should just deal with it so she doesnt feel the need to lie?

I totally second what soapbox said. I know you say it's been an issue for ages, but that basically means that your input so far has not helped to change anything. She lies because she is trying to 'deflect' your attention on this matter; the fact that she does it when she will obviously be found out is not a sign that she is a child who has a problem with being a liar, it just shows I think how much she wants this issue to 'go away'.

Ignore it completely as soapbox said; make sure that you pick up any knickers from where she hides them, every day if you can, and just wash them without comment.

I do think the attention needs to be removed from it altogether. She will do better, when she can - just trust her.

ok - thanks ladies.
I have removed the knickers and put them in the laundry.
Thanks for your advice, i hope she feels happier knowing that I KNOW and that she hasnt got shouted at. I think she will feel less anxious now.

I'm sure she will Nix. good luck