Fucking SCREENS - I wish I'd never let them in the house in the first place.

[BeMorePanda]

2 DD's 9 & 6. I'm a single parent.

Both like a little screen time - don't we all. Usually they will pay games, or watch kiddies you tube/iplayer or netflix - so in part it is a TV substitute. Not every day, but most days.

But the source of pretty much all conflict between us comes from screens and I'M OVER IT!!!

I feel like 9yo's preferred default position is on an ipad. When I limit/manage how much time she is on a screen, it leads to conflict - pretty much our only source of conflict.

So we got in last night and she went straight to the ipad. I said, no, please go and do something else. Lead to her having a tantrum. I didn't respond as such but when she had calmed down I tried to talk with her to work out a position we were both going to be happy with. She wasn't up for this and went back to tantrum.

I started to simply ignore all her theatrics. Ended up with me reading to 5yo in bed and ignoring ongoing antics of 9yo, until 9yo SPAT IN MY FACE

I managed to stay pretty calm, and told her to go to bed and we would talk tomorrow (today). She started all the "you don't love me" and I replied "I do love you but I don't like you very much at the moment and I do not want to talk to you right now. We will talk tomorrow"

She is very sorry and full of self loathing today. I've been very calm and netural.

She's now on an ipad ban (she has hidden ipad but I have the chargers). Also I'm not making her packed lunches anymore - I'm not taking the time and care to pack a nice lunch for someone who feels they can spit in my face.

But how to move forward with the screen time I don't know. I want to ban it all, and feel this would remove a massive source of conflict, but probably this is being unreasonable.

I wanted to talk with her and work out a system that works for us both, but I don't know if that will actually be possible or work.

I feel a bit lost.

How you you manage screen time with your kids?
How would you respond to a child spitting in your face?

I would deffo make her lunch

I would confiscate the ipad for two weeks then give it back for an hour at weekends.

Fwiw none of my children have an ipad.

And if she's hidden the pad and isn't telling you where it is, she's being very naughty. If a child spat in my face about a toy, that toy would be leaving the house for good.

That's not an iPad issue.

Are you clear and consistent in your screen rules? We have Fires that have limits on the time and when it's gone, it's gone. We are very clear about screen times and bedtimes.

Unless she can make her own packed lunches don't be petty about them.

What punishments do you usually use and how are they enforced?

"she went straight on the ipad"

seems pretty obvious who is in charge her, and it's not you.

get rid of it, and I'd be issuing some pretty harsh sanctions for her behaviour

Here iPad time is limited to 30 mins a day, twice this at weekends (can't be one hour straight though). DS1 has a timer so he can check how much time remains then knows to come off. If he tantrums then no time the next day, no arguments. Perhaps you could put something similar in place?

With regards to the situation with your eldest I would make packed lunches still, but make it clear that if the IPad is not returned to you asap then she will not be allowed time on it for the foreseeable. You need to regain control. No iPad time for the next 2 weeks, extra chores for the time she would have spent on it to show how sorry it is. Then clean slate and new stricter screen rules in place.
- I too would be devastated by my child spitting.

The spitting would be the end of the iPad for a very long time tor me.

Mine both have iPads but can take them or leave them. My 9yo got an iPod touch for Christmas and she's glued to it and also has an attitude at times. However, she knows fine well that with one press of a button on my phone, I can erase her iPod and her music and videos are gone for good. That usually sorts her out and she hands it over like a little lamb.

Rules need to be absolutely 100% consistent. So she knows that going straight on the iPad when she gets in she knows it's not an option ever, rather than being told sometimes, when perhaps on other days it's been fine? (That's just me guessing I may be wrong!)

My two have half an hour each per day, they can use it any time after 3 (they are home educated now but we've stuck to school type hours) or any time at all on weekends (so if they use it up before breakfast then meh, their problem!

The key is (and I've learned this the hard way with so many things) is not to just think "oh fuck it" and let them have a day "off" from the rules e.g. saying ok yes have as long as you want today. Makes it so much harder to stick to after.

I have no advice/experience on the spitting, I can see why you are so upset :( I would want to come down very hard on that and I'd think it's a perfect reason to completely ban screen time for a while. And then reset the rules when ban is up - limited and consistent.

Not sure about lunch - if it's going to make her feel like you love her less (for some families making food is a big thing) then I'm not sure it's a good idea. If it's just that she has to put the time/effort in (assuming she is able to) fair enough IMO.

I'm reluctant to use chores as a punishment - I also don't link pocket money to chores. My thinking behind this is we all need to contribute to our home environment. I don't get paid to wash clothes, cook meals, wash up etc and neither should they - they need to do it, because it needs to be done, not because they are paid to do it.

I'd prefer she has school dinners - demands on my time are enough as it is. But she really wanted packed lunch, and so I go out of my way to do that for her. If she is going to disrespect me then those parts in the day where I go out of my way for her, stop. that is my logic behind stopping the packed lunch. I "work to rule". Her sister happily has school dinners.

The ipad will be returned to me tonight and she is on a ban - I don't know how long for yet.

It seems that some kind of time management/daily limit is the way forward & I will implement that. I will also be very clear that any disrespect/OTT rudeness will mean a screen ban.

Do you lump TV time in with screen time?

introverted yes I am devastated by the spitting. I have no idea where this comes from. DD1 is the child teachers thank me for. She is highly attuned, intelligent, kind and empathetic. Until these blips happen.

one press of a button on my phone, I can erase her iPod and her music and videos are gone for good.
what is this wonderful sorcery?

If she'd hidden the iPad then she's not sorry and full of self loathing, she's playing you.
Spitting in your face is disgusting, I'd have been furious in your position and the iPad would be gone. Permanently.

Having and using tech is a privilege, not a right. My 14 yr old dd lost her iPod touch last night for being rude and dismissive. She may have it back at the weekend if she improves. If she continues then tonight she will not be given a lift to youth club, and after that she will lose her phone. There are consequences for negative behaviour. Don't discuss these with your dd, decide on what is reasonable and tell her. You are the parent and she must respect that.

Fwiw at 9, dd wasn't using any tech unless it was the laptop in the kitchen for Mathletics type homework, or a bit of club penguin etc. Certainly not for a good while before bed and not for too long. I didn't count tv in this as she could wind down with some tv time after dinner.

I wouldn't put tv time with screen time in this situation. Especially if she was banned, if she had to go elsewhere while the rest of you watched something then she would feel isolated. So I'd just leave the tv as it is for now.

Will you decide how long the ban is for, or decide later based on behaviour improving? I think I'd lean towards the former but perhaps with the warning that more rudeness with make the time start again, or something.

Okay she is addicted to th3 screens and she now needs your help. It's so tough nowadays but really at 9 she doesn't need it ! I think her behaviour shows she can't handle using it at all. I would completely remove it for the foreseeable future

We all have phones and we know how addictive screens are. She is losing the ability to play on her own. As adults we have to help our kids stay resilient and keep the ability to play.

Take it off her for a few months to break the habit.

Btw no judgement at all from me. I'm not a single parent but my husband is away a lot and I really rely on the tv for the kids.

It's not easy and we all know that screen use is as much for adult relaxation as for kids.

What do your kids do when there's no screen? How do they entertain themselves?

Chores obviously aren't punishment - extra ones that show appreciation for you are. Eg DS1 once really hurt my feelings by saying to his friend he would "kick my ass" (!) after I told him off for something. Said friend then told on him. As a consequence on top of his usual chores that need to get done to do fun things together quicker he had to do things that showed his appreciation for the extra things I do for him by doing them for me (eg sweeping the path, dusting picture frames etc). The point is that if your child is like mine and prefers screen time to other activities then by saying essentially "no screens are punishment enough" then you are really reinforcing for her that screen time is the be all and end all. It also doesn't address the disrespect shown.

It's up to you though of course! I know what you mean about the disappointment though, don't be too hard on yourself though.

My 2yo was throwing tantrums over watching Ceebeebies, whilst watching he'd just stare at the screen.

So I banned it.

Now he gets to watch the Simpsons at 6pm with us and maybe we have a film on at the weekend.

He knows the new rules and tantrums are greatly reduced, I now spend a lot more time reading books and I allow audio CDs.

He's going the same way to get chocolate banned now!

Seems like you're handling this pretty well to be honest. I also believe chores should be done because everyone has to pitch in. Packed lunches are an extra effort that I choose to do or not, otherwise it's school meals every day.
My kids are iPad obsessed too. Xbox as well, and in the case of my 10yo, iphone obsessed. (Now she's off out playing in the village with friends it's nice to be able to track her)

The spitting is beyond what I could tolerate though and I would have been far too tempted to simply take a hammer to the iPad in front of her and end the problem forever. (Yeah I overreact but the results are good)
I would go and find the iPad now and remove it. Keeping it hidden from you is a clear show of defiance and disrespect. If you need to locate (or wipe completely) it you need to have installed the "find my iPhone" app. It allows you to log in from other devices or a computer and send a signal to set off an alarm so you can find it. Find my iPhone shows you the device's rough location on a map (i.e. is it in your house or friend's houses). You can also delete all the information on the iPad and even block it using the app.

We don't get in until about 6.30pm weekdays, and we don't have the TV on very much. Perhaps a film on Friday nights and a bit of Saturday/Sunday morning TV. If they are tired when we get in on a weekend they might chill out with TV while I cook dinner but otherwise it's not on much (until after they go to bed at least).

DD1 has been watching some Netflix programs on the ipad though so she is watching more "tv", just not on the TV - it's all blending these days isn't it.

They have no problems entertaining themselves without screens - happy to read, play, make stuff, bake, do cartwheels. It's when the TV/screens are off - that is when the magic happens.

Clearly I need to set some clearer boundaries re screens and reduce how much time she has on it - I have relaxed things a bit as it seemed to be OK, but clearly it's not. DD's have different taste in TV so it sort of worked with DD1 watching her own thing on ipad and DD2 and I didn't have to "suffer" it.

I like then idea of no screens at all during the week (just a bit of TV as required), and limited screen time at the weekends, once homework & chores etc have been done.

I wasn't so bothered about her hiding the ipad last night as:
A) I have the chargers;
B) I had decided not to engage with her any further last night and her hiding ipad was another way she was trying to draw me in - I declined;
C) we live in a small place - she can't use it without me knowing :)

It will be handed over as soon as we are home tonight.

I would have been far too tempted to simply take a hammer to the iPad in front of her and end the problem forever. (Yeah I overreact but the results are goodgrin)
I hear you - thankfully I was having a lovely cuddle/read with DD2 or I might have got more dramatic. But from previous "episodes" with DD1 I have learnt that no one wins by engaging with her on her moody terms and I was very pleased that I managed to largely stay calm and non-reactive (she wanted me to push back so she could kick off more and I didn't) and let her ride it out.

But yes hammer to ipad would be wonderfully cathartic :)

There are apps that you can use limit iPad use to particular times of the day and to set amounts of time. ( which you can control from your own iPad or phone and the brackets ). For example, you might want to allow your child to have a maximum screen time of 30 minutes any time between 6:30 and 8:30 Monday through Thursday and then a more generous time on Fridays Saturdays and Sundays. The child gets a password and can only use the iPad with that password.

If you do this it means that you are no longer directly involved in monitoring how much time that they are on the iPad. It takes the negotiation and conflict out of it.

My DC are older so I don't use them myself but a quick Google shows that all lots to choose from for e.g. kidslox

thanks ItsOut I will take a look

We do this in the holidays... still takes a bit of policing though

All back to a happy place at the Panda house.

Ipad was handed back last night and DD1 accepted fully a ban for a minimum of 3 weeks, subject to review of behaviour after 3 weeks.

We also discussed going forward clear rules of no screens during the week and limited screen time on weekends, subject to homework/chores/room tidy etc.

I made it very clear that if she was ever to spit at me (or anyone else for that matter) again that would be the end of screens for her.

DD then talked quite openly about how she lost her temper and how she feels about that - like being carried away to somewhere she doesn't want to go, and has no control over - and it was great for her to talk openly like that. We talked about possible coping/intervention mechanisms. It doesn't happen very often but when it does she is fairly destructive.

thanks for all your support and ideas everyone. I've very happy being a single parent, but it is at times like this I really feel alone and laciking in support (not that XP was ever supportive but you know what I mean). This thread and your comments made a massive difference to my day yesterday. x

I went through hell with a fucking ipad.

I lost my rag and threw the damn thing into a sink full of water in the end. Not my finest parenting hour.

I rue the day I ever let the damn things in the house. Interestingly, now he's older, DS has grown out of it.

(Yes, I replaced it in the end. With a cheaper model).

Im so Sorry you are going through this. I try and not advise anyone here on what to do I can only tell you what I do and what would do if my 7 year old did such things.
So, my son has iPad, ps vita , ps4 and tv in his bedroom, our house is big enough that if he wanted to he could sneak out of bed and play games the whole night we would never be able to hear a thing 4 floors down, having said that , we have had to remove bedside lamp from his bedroom as he would stay up reading the entire night in the past. I have always been a very strict parent, my word stays and tantrums are something he tried a couple of times when he was 2 and I smacked his bum a few times ( yes I know some of you are not adept of that, each to their own) and that was it, he was at that time even a little abusive towards me , I stood my ground and he's not tried anything abusive or disrespectful towards me or his dad ever again , his time on the iPad is controlled by leaving iPad at the back of the car, he can go on it whenever we are travelling to a day out or on the way to school, all other devices are used but not as much because when he is at home he is outside playing football or inside reading , there's not much time between when school finishes and dinner and bed time 19:30 and weekends there's football and golf , he can go on it in the afternoon but he needs to help setting up the table for lunch before and if it's nice day he would continue playing football outside even after football. so he is not obsessed with the iPad, but when he is on it , if I don't say put it down ,he would stay on it forever and sometimes he gets annoyed when I say put it away but I pay no attention to it, he's a child, has to do what I say and he knows it.
If my son spat on my face I would , and I'm saying this from the bottom of my heart, I would sell ALL his things, nice football kits, gadgets everything , and make him work doing house chores after school and weekends until he made enough money to buy it one by one and would not buy any more magazines in the mean time. I believe in Being tough to be kind and whatever i do or say , I do not compromise , I do not go back on my word.
Sorry long text but I thought sharing my routine could help .. Best of luck xxxx