Need a suitable punishment for an 11 year old phone thief.

[NeedHelpPlease123]

My daughter stole her friends iphone last night, I searched her coat and bag when I found out her friends phone was missing, but she had already hidden it elsewhere at that point. I asked her many times if it was her, she swore it wasn't her and said it was probably the girl's little sister, as the sister was playing with it.
The mum knocked at my door this morning and asked if my daughter had the phone, I said I checked her bag and coat and it wasn't there etc.
Shortly after my daughter asked me where something was, I opened her drawer to find not only one phone but two! Both were stolen from the same girl.

I took the phones to the school and explained what had happened to the head of year etc, so they know what had happened and could deal with it internally and so the phones could be returned to the girl.
(she is excluded from lessons).

I need some suitable punishments for outside of school as this I can't think of anything suitable to match how awful her behaviour has been.

She is already grounded for 3 months for going to said friend's house without permission and not coming home until 8pm.

I need suggestions for individual punishments for stealing phone one, stealing the iphone, lying when questioned about it, stealing from a friend, and making me into a liar by misleading me.

@ chrispbutty What does an 11 year old need to do online?

She plays with her toys, arts and crafts, she loves singing and saving, occasionaly plays her game console and enjoys going out for family activities.
She isn't just shoved on a computer all day or made to stay outside all day like many kids these days.

She rarely wants to go out, so in total she has probably missed out on 3-5 trips out in those 3 months.

thesecond

That's an awful suggestion - for the OP to lie and say she was going to buy her DD an iPhone and then lie again and pretend not buying it is a consequence of the stealing.

Why would you suggest such a thing?

Once this has blown over and she has done her time, perhaps discuss with her some supervised/safe ways that she can access some of the same entertainment as her friends, as she must be missing out on a lot of the cultural references in the playground, and this might be part of the reason she keeps breaking rules.

Consequences for the behaviour rather than punishment to the person has been proven to be superior in working to shape children's behaviour. From your point of view you are angry, feel embarrassed and want to see that your child is learning from their mistakes. From your child's point of view, if you have spoken with anger, and discussed your embarrassment, they would feel some shame and the relationship between yourselves as parents and your child would be strained and more distant,but they may also be mainly thinking "My Mum is mean" rather than " I made a mistake and messed up' Instead of 3 months grounding, is there some other natural consequence that others can think of may help her learn from her mistakes, which is I assume your aim. Basically if there is light at the end of the tunnel for her to see a way clear to changing her behaviour she is more likely to change it so consequences need to be much shorter, and aim to make a path for her to learn from her mistakes.
My 10 year old once stole all my 3 sons wallets and we found them like you, when looking for something else, hid them in her drawer!
My kids do make mistakes too, and it is crap to find yourself having to deal with it. Happily my daughter has not stolen again, and I'm sure your daughter wont either! Keep the faith, they can feel when you believe in them to be a better person, and that is often more powerful than we think rather than anything we think of as consequences to their mistakes.

She probably wont be able to give chapter and verse on why she did it. But why do you think she did?

Incidentally my DD nearly 9 has also stolen something (very small, but no matter) and after much wringing of (my) hands the light suddenly dawned that she has major impulse control issues that we needed to help her with as parents, as a priority. I'm not saying your DD is the same, I just wanted to explain my situation and how I started off from a position of thinking mostly about punishment and .... well, ended up somewhere quite different. Not that dhe went unpunished mind you.

But she is 11 not 7, an age where there are lots of things on the internet that her peers are reading or part of.

What does an 11 year old need to do online

I have two 12 year olds. Some of their social interaction with their peers takes place on Instagram (plans to meet up, shared jokes). Their accounts are visible from my phone so I can supervise this. Both of them are active on a Minecraft server which is shared with some local friends. They build things together.

What does an 11 year old need to do online?

OP, I suggest you start learning fast about how children and young people use the onternet and social media. If you genuinely don't have a clue, you're not going to be able to help her stay safe. Banning her from the internet is not a good long-term strategy.

10 is the age of criminal responsibility and so the friends mother and the school could have involved the police.

In your shoes I'd still involve the police as they could talk her through the consequences. And it would feel real.

I suspect I was more than a handful for my parents growing up. One of my biggest problems at that age was that friends had things I didnt have and were allowed to do things I wasnt. Even at the same age. Some things were never going to be solved due to differences in parental income that even I could see would affect things so I never complained about not having a new car to be chauffeured about it. I stole things from shops (ski gloves would you believe as I wanted warmer hands and mittens werent good enough) and friends (usually something like a specific dice for a dungeons and dragon type game). I was never caught though and grew out of it but if asked why I probably would have said "Don't know" as well. Who wants to admit jealousy and having to resort to theft.

As for going out, I always remember crying real tears of frustration at hearing my friends outside playing in the summer when I was forced into my bed. It hurt.

I dont know the solution. A chat with the police would probably work. But I would also try to find out why. Does she feel jealous, does she feel excluded, does she feel stifled? And then maybe work out a system of rewards for good behaviour. Like staying out more if texts are sent in enough time etc.

OP, there's a good guest post on here right now that would be good for you to read and equip yourself with the right information about how children and young people are using the internet these days;

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/guest_posts/2819949-Guest-post-We-need-to-do-more-to-equip-our-children-for-life-online

That's an awful suggestion - for the OP to lie and say she was going to buy her DD an iPhone and then lie again and pretend not buying it is a consequence of the stealing.

Many parents allow their children to have a smartphone (not necessarily an iPhone) in the last year of primary school or the first year of secondary school. Delaying this by a term would be a consequence of untrustworthy behaviour (e.g. stealing). No lying necessary.

But the OP wasn't intending to buy her DD a smartphone so saying she was is a lie.

She will need a consequence, chat with police is a good idea. I think the "punishment" concept may well backfire. Yes she needs rules and boundaries but being grounded for three months is excessive. What will you do when she is a wee bit older and pushes the boundaries even more? And will she think in a couple of years if she gets grounded for such a long time for staying in her friend without permission she may as well stay out for the whole night, get drunk, go to that party.....Because if she gets grounded for so long it may at least be worth it.
To me it sounds like a deeper problem (not necessarily a condition) but the combination of quite challenging behaviour and a punitive parental approach would make me think of seeking support.
Also did you mention in your initial post that she is excluded from school?

Agree with the idea of getting her her own smartphone if she sticks to clearly defined rules for a clearly defined period of time and does certain regular chores in the home. You can get smartphones that are perfectly okay for kids very cheap.

Have you always been this harsh on her? Restricting the internet seems so extreme as does the grounding.

I would have made her return the phone to her friend in person.

I would also have a good look at your parenting. I used to steal at about that age and it was a bit of a cry for attention.

I think you need to extend her freedoms a bit. She can't learn until she has some opportunity to make smaller mistakes.

But the OP wasn't intending to buy her DD a smartphone

Where we are, nearly every 12 year old has a smartphone, not necessarily a new iphone but often a reconditioned Samsung or Nokia Lumia. I made the assumption that the OP's daughter would be getting similar in the near future, and thought that delaying this would be a suitable consequence for stealing an iPhone.

You are right that the OP shouldn't just invent a hypothetical plan to get her daughter a phone if they weren't planning to do this.

Why did you involve her school?

11yr olds online?

Remember when you used to get home from school and watch that certain show that everyone at school was talking about? And how left out you would have felt if you had missed it?

It's like that. But these days they talk about you tube videos, vloggers, bloggers, snapchat, instagram and facebook. They are if the social media era. They are growing up immersed in it. They need to be taught and guided gp through it, not shielded from it. Shielding them and them them going out in the big wide world naive is what gets them in trouble. Quite the opposite of what you are doing in order to 'protect' her.

In fact, no eleven year old I know even watches tv anymore.

Flogging I'd be interested to know this too. Why did you involve the school and not just phone her Mum OP?

I would make her write an apology to you, the friend and the friends mum.

Not every 12 year old has a flash phone. Some just have old Nokias.

OP in the nicest possible way, it sounds as if you are still trying to keep your eleven year old young. She "likes playing with her toys and doing crafts," sounds like you're talking about a toddler not a secondary aged child who should be learning greater independence at this stage.

I can understand why the grounding given she's only eleven. I would have hit the roof if mine had stayed out until 8 PM at that age without me knowing where he was. but a three months grounding puts you in an impossible position now in terms of being able to apply consequences for the stealing.and three months takes you into April. that's a long time.

The internet is an integral part of growing up these days. Children talk about YouTube and vlogging, and music and TV they now watch online. By banning the internet you have excluded her from a massive part of what her peer group will be about. Certainly not every child at this age has an iPhone, and mine wasn't allowed on FB or twitter or snapchat until he was thirteen, as were any of his other friends, however by blanket banning the internet you are leaving her wide open to potentially getting into trouble with it at a later stage, or without your knowledge when she goes on it at friends' houses.

While my DS didn't have most social media, most of his friends did have instagram, but when he asked if he could have it I said no. He set up an account without my knowledge. And was subjected to some fairly low-level online bullying, but it bothered him none the less. And because he'd set up the account without my knowledge and knowing I'd said no, he couldn't tell me that he was being bullied on there, and it didn't come out until he started feeling sick/anxious about going to school etc.

I would come down hard about stealing the phone. At eleven she is old enough to have consequences, and i might be inclined to let the police have a word about how she is criminally responsible at that age and what might happen if the mum had reported her.

But I would also use this opportunity to talk to her about freedom and independence, and let her earn the right to go online and to go to frends' houses. If she's rebelling at eleven you are setting yourself up for a whole lot of real problems when she's sixteen if you don't address it now.

Time to let go a bit.

I would have felt l was a pretty strict mum but l'm a bit shocked at how you treat your dd. Actually l wondered if this post was real as your attitude to your dd is so harsh. Three months grounding is too much. She will have forgotten why she was grounded and will meantime build up massive resentment towards you and this will backfire later in teenage years. The stealing could be rooted in anger. I would suggest a different approach. Sit her down and chat to her. See where she is coming from. Reach her now as this could be a turning point in your relationship. Punishment is not always the answer. Building a relationship is important. And she needs access, not unlimited, but some, to the Internet.

Is she Year 6 or Year 7?