SS call with A&E visit

[user1476694639]

Just wondered whether it was standard to refer any infant A&E visit to SS? Or whether we've been singled out somehow? Worried...

Our 3-week old DS has just learned to roll by wriggling legs and arms about. Unbeknownst of this, DH was supervising him on our double bed while I sent emails on the other side of the room. DH popped out of the room for a moment and DS managed to roll off the folded quilt, and fell onto the bedroom carpet.

He gave a little cry and seemed okay, but we panicked and called 111. They told us to take him to a&E within the next six hours, which we did immediately. We then waited four hours under observation incase he'd had a head injury (we thought he fell nappy-first, but couldn't be 100% as it happened quickly) and the paediatrician checked him over - no sign of injury.

Yesterday DH gets a call from SS on my mobile (his is in for repair) asking to access DS's medical records from the hospital. The SS guy asked various questions about whether DS 'rolled' or 'wriggled' onto the floor, and asked about a mental health condition (autism) neither of us had been diagnosed with.

From reading Mumsnet, I would expect a visit from a HV after an A&E visit, but no SS involvement. I'm baffled. Neither of us have any involvement with SS, we have no mental health issues, and DS wasn't injured.

Obviously, I've spent a long time trying to work out what would alarm someone about us or why SS called. I have opted out of agency-wide data sharing for political/medical confidentiality reasons, so wondered whether SS involvement was routine with a baby A&E visit and the only reason we'd had a call is to get our permission to share DS's data.

DH called 111 on my phone and - if the call handler reported us for some bizarre reason - this would explain why SS called my phone asking for him.

Also, when we got to the hospital, the triage receptionist refused to believe that DS had rolled (as apparently 'newborns can't move' - someone should tell DS that...), threw an accusatory glance at DH and I have to admit to snapping at her. We had been waiting for a long time in a huge queue in which two sets of parents had got into a shouting match over who had got there first. I had been trying to keep DS awake (as we'd been advised to by 111), and was stressed. I didn't like someone who couldn't even see DS accusing us of abuse for no real reason. I should mention that neither the hospital paediatrician, paediatric nurse or community midwife (who came around to our house later to look at my stitches) seemed remotely concerned by the incident. However, I'm concerned the receptionist decided we'd abused DS and reported us.

In my experience in the NHS, injuries in babies considered too young to move on their own are referred to SS. If the medical team is actually concerned they would keep you until they are satisfied the baby is going home to a safe place. I would try not to worry too much, OP, and they would do more investigations looking for non-accidental injuries.

I don't understand some of the comments on here from people who wouldn't want to take their babies to A&E because social services might check up on them.

Surely after the tragic stories we've heard about the treatment of some kids we should welcome the fact that social services follow up on incidents like this? If things are easily explained then that's fine. And if they aren't, it's just as well that someone keeps an eye on things.

Wow, so many replies. Thanks for all the reassurance everyone :) I've taken a short video clip of DS trying to crawl on his activity gym - just incase it's needed.

I caught a social worker posting an appointment letter addressed to DH through our front door on Friday afternoon. I told her DH was returning to work on Monday, but was in the house. She didn't want to come in as she was going to another appointment, but then eventually came in briefly and spoke to DH who came downstairs holding DS. We explained the situation yet again. She mentioned a 'head injury' and seemed surprised when we said DS didn't have a head injury to our knowledge and he may not even have landed on his head (we were just worried he might have done).

NoMoreParades. I worked with a campaigner for people with ASD (who has ASD himself) for two years, have a huge amount of respect for him, and think he would make a great parent. Thinking about it, I realised I wrote 'mental health problem' because, sadly, that's how the CS guy who rang DH contextualised it on the telephone :( He explained the purpose of the call, asked what happened and then apparently, straight afterwards, said - with no context - 'what about the autism diagnosis?' We still have no idea if he was referring to DH or me - neither of us are autistic. Either way, he apparently accused DH of 'bad parenting' and there seemed to be an implicit suggestion that someone being autistic was pertinent. To be honest, having worked with an ASD campaigner, I find that suggestion offensive... but there we are.

NewIdeasToday. I would agree with you but, sadly, there are as many high profile cases of SS being heavy handed around innocent parents as there are cases of ignoring real abuse and neglect. They are, if you think about it, both a sign that something is wrong with a SS department. I spent sometime over the weekend reading the Serious Case Reports for some of the high-profile abuse cases - Victoria Climbie, Baby P, Daniel Pelka, etc. I wanted to understand how CS managed to completely ignore children starving to death, tied up in bin bags, and with 128 injuries on their bodies while jumping straight onto the parents of an infant with no head injury who rolled/wriggled off a bed. In most cases of serious abuse and neglect, SS were involved at the time of the child's death and there were MASSIVE warning signs. We're talking the police being called 20+ times to a house due to domestic violence, children in hospital for a fortnight with severe burns, children raiding bins and neighbour's gardens for food, etc. There is no case I found where a family with no history with SS or the police attended A&E, there was a minor non-injury and the next thing anyone knew the child was dead due to neglect and abuse. The reason Baby P, etc were scandalous is that SS knew a child was at risk, but failed to take timely action due to mismanagement or high caseloads. Baby P had 50 (I think) visits by government agencies during his life. Also most parents with chaotic lives love their kids, eventually manage to sort their lives out and their children are better off with them than in the care of the state.

My youngest could roll from back to side at a day old. He used to wiggle his legs around and the movement would turn his body. My eldest couldn't do that for months though.

Please don't worry too much OP, the accident must have been enough of a shock without the call from SS.

My ds was the same.

So is the sw meeting your dh later? Odd for it to be just him she's interested in.
Anyway as pp have said it will just be standard procedure for this kind of incident. Cooperate and I'm sure they will go away, hopefully ds can do a wriggly demonstration which might help matters, but the video will too.
I think most of us have a kid falling out of the bed story, we certainly have 2, but the kids were several months old and properly mobile. Don't beat yourself up about it x

Very well put OP. I was discussing SS on another thread but can't do so without getting very upset and emotional and you've put what I want to say. They can swoop in and put any child on a CIN or CPP plan for nothing, for risks of possible future harm (usually the unambiguous blanket umbrella of emotional harm which could mean anything and has no way to prove or disprove any real risk, everyone is at sodding risk of future emotional harm every day! I could call my toxic mother now and she'll say something emotionally harmful that'll have me feeling for days, should she be strung up and dragged through court and her life destroyed for it??? Of course not! I could get hit my a truck tomorrow and my kids could witness it and suffer emotional harm. It's a nonsense ridiculous claim designed just to give them an easy reason with no substance.) including if a parent has mental health issues, anything from depression to ASD to ADHD to BPD to OCD. They know a few poor kids and suffered terribly and died because of their failings so their response it to swoop on everyone for everything every time. It's the equivalent of one person died from a chocolate allergy now chocolate is banned for the whole country. What happened to Baby P, Victoria Climby et al was horrific and heartbreaking, no one can deny that, but the answer is not to make all parents live in fear of suspicion and create a culture where every professional calls SS every single time there's ever any illness or injury or misdemeanour. Kids fall, they climb, they trip, they grab things they shouldn't, they want to explore and every single child will hurt themselves. This is NORMAL, not a risk. Every single parent will at some point make a mistake. This is NORMAL, not a risk. The head I spoke to about my friends' case said at some point every child in the school has a referral to SS and they have a huge ridiculously long list of every tiny thing they have a duty to report and they follow it to the letter, that these reports are not a big deal because every family gets reported, it's fine. If that's true then no, it's really really not fine. This from someone who had my friends' kids taken from them but had another pupil under her care killed by a violent father. Yeah, good job with your safeguarding there love, that system really works.

They are not infallible, any more than doctors are infallible. Sometimes a doctor will treat a patient who could have got better on his own but miss symptoms of cancer in another patient. That is very bad when it happens. But not a reason for the rest of the country never to go to the doctor.

And it is worth remembering that for the vast majority of parents who have had SS involvement it does not result in children being removed. Having SS involvement does not have to mean your life is destroyed.

9 times out of 10 there's no need for them to be involved at all. The majority of the CIN and even CPP kids don't need to be there, they're just normal families who sometimes life gets a little hectic or stressful for! That should never warrant SS intervention and kids being placed under the care of the LA!! That doesn't help anyone! I've never seen a case where kids being on a plan has helped, all it has done is make the parents even more stressed, even less able to cope, even more scared, even less likely to ask for help in future if they need it. They don't even have the most basic of resources to help these situations! In cases of a DV family breakdown, do they have perpetrator programmes? I mean proper, long term, effective programmes. Nope. Do they have mediation and family therapy? Again proper, effective, long term stuff, not half an hour with some 21 year old who did a weekend workshop once. Nope. How about counselling? Battered wives therapy? Children's therapy (proper stuff not some self appointed play therapist who will see them half a dozen times). They could skip all that stressful BS and actually use the money to provide actual real help with real results, rather than spend it on constant BS conferences and meetings. 🙄 Their intervention doesn't help families or true victims. It makes them all worse.

DD was taken to hospital when her brother (6 at the time) got a bit over excited and ended up kneeing her right in her soft spot..SS were called and came but had no issues, said it was normal for kids that young.

On the subject of strong babies...DD could hold her head up from birth. All the midwives kept coming round just to see her because of this. I would have her lain against my shoulder and her head would be held right up, occasionally nutting me in the side of the face

The social worker came this afternoon. The concerns were that he'd 'rolled' off the bed when he was very little and that SS had also been told by the local midwives we were both (!!) diagnosed as autistic. Neither of us is autistic. We are concerned there was an outbreak of amateur psychology somewhere along the line. This would be extremely unprofessional and also disrespectful of people on the autistic spectrum. We are going to investigate further and possibly complain ... :(

The social worker is going to speak to our health visitor after she's visited tomorrow. We are hoping that the file will be closed then. She mentioned midway through the conversation she didn't really have any concerns based on what I said about the accident.

Frazzled2207 SS didn't have my name - just DH's. Hence the focus on DH.

I'm obviously upset about the whole situation. The social worker was, to her credit, very plesasant and respectful. However, I felt judged anyhow, was very stressed at a time when my focus should be the new baby, and DS has probably slept better than me at night the last couple of days. I don't want to think how things would have gone if I was desperately sleep deprived or had no support at home.

My elder DD was similar...also had a very strong neck, lifting her head and looking about at a week old. She was also a big baby...9 pounds.

TBF it wasn't a great idea to leave a baby who rolls on the edge of a bed.

TwoGunslingers. No sh*t, Sherlock... Put more politely, we didn't understand how much he could move until he did, and most of the 'rolling' was under gravity anyhow.

Haven't 99% of parents accidentally let their baby roll off the bed?
If someone posts on here they did there are usually many posters saying they did the same thing or shut their babies fingers somewhere, all perfectly good parents - just accidents, we all make mistakes.

A non-mobile baby fell off a bed. It's right that was followed up though it must have been stressful for you.

CYPS can't win. Everyone wants them to investigate and halt child abuse. But only as long as they're never questioned about anything to do with their children because of course you're not abusing your children and that should be obvious.

Every single child abuser that turns up in A and E with their child says it was an accident and are aghast at the suggestion that it wasn't an accident and CYPS should be informed and say 'children are dying while they're wasting their time with loving families who have done nothing wrong'.

Child abusers often seem plausible and loving and genuinely upset that it could even be suggested they would hurt their child. It's not easy to tell who's telling the truth or not and that's why certain injuries/incidents reported are red flags. And a 3 week old baby falling off a bed is one even though there's an explanation here and it was an accident.

The Autism stuff I'd complain about though.

Just saying that I don't find it at all odd that SS might be involved. Your story is a 3 week rolled enough to fall off a bed. Most little ones aren't that mobile so they are looking into it. The fact that you left the baby on the edge of a bed is also a bit odd so they're going to be interested, but obviously these things happen.