too clever by half

[throckenholt]

My DS1 is 3 next month. We have tried potty training on and off for months without success. We institued a star chart with a much-longed for reward. He understood exactly what was required - would often say if I get all my stars I can have x, if I wee on potty I get a star. This weekend we had a break through and all wees and poos were in the potty and the star chart filled up. Great - we promised to go get the reward asap - probably tomorrow.

Now today we have had no poos or wees at all and he won't sit on the potty because he has filled up his chart, he has earned his reward, he doesn't want any more stars or any other rewards - so no need to do it any more !

How do we get round that one ? DH is looking after him today, has tried talking to him clamly, has tried making him sit on the potty, and has said he won't get the reward unless he carries on using the potty.

How's it going today? Did he get his reward yet? I wonder if perhaps he wasn't happy that the reward didn't come as soon as he's done his bit, iyswim....
This seems a tricky one. Clearly he CAN do it, but isn't inclined to. A couple of thoughts, no idea if helpful - can you make it seem like you are less bothered about it - try to make it more of a normal, expected thing? Maybe try to make the consequences of not managing to go on the potty a little less appealing - like insisting he has to stop and go and change himself? Is there anything you can mention (casually) that he will need to be trained for - like preschool in a few months or something? But I don't claim to have a solution, still struggling myself with trying not to make it a battleground!

Well he did have some more successes on the potty yesterday afternoon but we are still in a bit of a mess. When we try and take off his night nappy he has a tantrum and says over and over again "I want my wet nappy on!".

Once we get it off he runs around with no pants on and jumps on the potty with no prompting when he needs to go. However, if he has pants on or we are outside he just wees or poos and carries on doing whatever he. Yesterday evening (after a long day at work for me) he managed to poo in the garden (no pants on), in his pants in the garden, on the carpet upstairs. He was playing with DH and he has no pants on and potty was in the room (just thought maybe he has got a thing about the potty when DH is with him ?).

Just spoke to DH - he was trying to get him to go on the potty before going off to get his reward (could hear DS crying in the background ). I said - just try and get him to sit on it, but if not go and get the reward - let him know is actually getting it. There has been a bit of a delay before getting because it hasn't been possible to get to the shop before now.

Ho hum - it is great being a parent isn't it.

Oh dear th - its difficult isn't it? Hopefully someone who's struggled but is through it now can help....
What do you think is going on when he doesn't bother - do you think he doesn't know what he is doing, or that he does know, but its still quite difficult to get right and he needs to concentrate more than he can be bothered (think my ds falls into this category), or that he is doing it partly because it presses your buttons? (think this also a factor for me).

I don't think he has quite figured out how all the processes fit together. He will point out the puddle on the floor ("loook !" or show me where he did it if I ask him (try to track down where the mess is - ugh). He seems a bit baffled.

He is really pleased with himself when he does it on the potty - and sits there saying "there's one coming !".

I think he thinks he can just do it when he wants to and the rest of the time he doesn't need to worry. I am often tempted to think he is pressing our buttons (but then I always think that when I am tired and he is being awkward !) - but I really think that isn't the case.

hmmm, it sounds like positive reinforcement (lavish praise and rewards) is likely to be a more appropriate strategy then...
Does he decide when to go or do you remind him? Do you have any times when he is expected to go - does he object to going at your suggesetion - if not, could you pre-empt some of the accidents and give him experience of success that will make him feel motivated?
With ds1 (and I don't know if this is the right way to approach it or not) I find that if I leave it to him completely, he often leaves it just a bit too late to get to the potty in time (but he does know when its coming). For a long time we've had times when I routinely put him on the potty, and I am insisting that we stick to those (perhaps this is not the right approach but it seems to be working as long as I remain calm) - he generally gives a knee jerk 'no I don't want to' but will come round with gentle but firm insistence - he has to do it himself though, it works best if I back off and wait for him to respond and give loads of positive feedback. Other times when I can tell he needs to go I will ask him, he will nearly always say 'no' first but then change his mind....for him though I am sure he has quite a high degree of control and awareness, he generally only has accidents because he's either too absorbed in play, or he doesn't get quite enough warning before its all just coming. He very very rarely has a poo accident.

no - he seems best if left to his own devices - sometimes here will come running in and jump on the potty. If we try and prompt him to he gets very resistant. I try and remind him he needs to think about it but without pushing him. I guess we just have to just let him get on with it and hope we don't get too many more accidents. Yesterday was just one of those days when a big poo was due - it was bound to go wrong .

Hopefully soon this will be a dim and distant memory!

It sounds like he hasn't quite got the hang of it. When they first start there is a very short window between realsing you need to go and actually doing it, so especially if absorbed in other activities it can often be too late. Try not to make it a big deal when he does have an accident, and give some praise - but not over the top here either - when he gets it right. It'll come. But even once it has you get the odd accident. My dd (4) has been out of napies for about 18 months but still occasionally gets it wrong when she's absorbed in another activity or out and too far from a loo.

th its great that he will do it completely of his own accord. I keep thinking maybe I should back off completely and leave ds1 to his own devices but can't quite bring myself to do it - if we're about to go out for example, or go somewhere in the car, I do want him to be in the habit of going when asked. But he is getting less resistant (as I am getting less over-anxious) so I think we are getting there.
Good luck!