My 7 and 5 year old are being so very naughty, send help before I go mad!!

[ViveLesVacances]

Have had it with my two middle boys. DS2 is 7 years old and DS3 is 5. For absolute transparency, we also have DS1 11 and a new baby DD.

I know they're super tired with the first term back at school, but their behaviour since September has been shit. Playing up at bedtime, constant tantrums and arguing - with me, with DH, with each other... and now for the DS2 it's spilling over into school. I'm getting called over to chat to the teacher at least once per week over an incident.

Today was the worst. DH is away and everyone need a piece of my attention. DS2 and DS3 were playing up big time in the bath - tantrumed as didn't want to get in, then didn't want to get out. Then started pinching each other and bailing water everywhere in the 30 seconds I left them to get crying DD who they'd woken up with their yells. Bathroom soaked. Totally lost it and bellowed at them both and send them straight to bed with threats of a smacked bottom if they got out.

I ended up crying into DD's soft little head after it all. Please, please, please someone tell me they have a child taming technique for this age. I can't keep doing this.

Do you smack them?

I have a 7 year old girl and 5 year old boy. I'm struggling with both of their behaviour too so shall be watching this thread in the hope of some tips also.

I didn't smack them, it was just out of my mouth before I could think.

Of course I shouldn't have said it, but I was just so done. Normally we do timeouts or removal of privileges for bad behaviour, it's just that lately it seems that's all we do and there isn't the slightest effect. Tried rewards as well, with sticker charts. DS2 ripped his in half in a rage and flushed DS3's down the loo and blocked them damn thing.

Has the behaviour coincided with the new baby? When is your DH back? It sounds as though you are overwhelmed

milky tough going isn't it? I wonder whether it's just cos they're closer in age. Certainly didn't get off scot free with DS1, but I don't bloody remember this either!

Don't worry, I didn't mean to sound accusing!

I think you might be being a bit hard on yourself. It sounds normal enough apart from the school stuff

Bathe separately.
Don't argue with a child.
Issue clear and consistent consequences. Ensure rules and expectations are clear.
Plan for good behaviour. Eg eating out at a time when they won't be knackered and take stuff to amuse them at table.
Stay calm. (Yes I know!) If you keep your voice low and calm it takes pressure out of the situation. Start yelling and they turn off and yell back.
Model good behaviour. Eg turn taking in games.
Thanks and praise whenever you can.
Be realistic. They are kids. They are close in age so will probably bicker!

Sounds like you're having a really stressful time atm, don't be too hard on yourself. We're all just trying to do our best. How old is DD? Are you very sleep deprived too?

I have two boys aged 5 and 2, and a teenage stepson who stays every other weekend. Eldest two can fight like cat and dog and it's so draining. Must be so hard for you on your own, too.

Do you have anyone else who can help? Maybe the middle boys need some time with you 1:1?

Hope things improve soon

I've got four (DD12 DS10 DS7 and DD2). My middle two are the two who argue most too.

I favour the 'Divide and Conquer' method when they get tetchy. When things get fractious I send them in different directions. One to play Lego in bedroom, one outside to kick a ball around, one in my bedroom to watch tv, one given kindle for YouTube, one allowed the Xbox, one helping me with housework , one set up with colouring or playdou or whatever. Etc

I also have zero tolerance for violence. They will get told off and sent to their room for any act of aggression. I must be honest here and say it hasn't stopped then fighting and being nasty sometimes. But it had has made much better.

Yes and no midnight. Baby, School starting back (we're in France and the school days are very long here), the age in general... they didn't have a great summer behaviour wise, but it's got a lot worse since school started back. DD arrived about a month beforehand and they adore her.

DH will be back on Monday, he's with his parents as his mum broke her femur and needs a little extra help this weekend as FIL has hand to deal with a family emergency on his side and is away.

DS2 has a teacher who is a very firm disciplinarian which is quite good, as he is one who will push as far as he can get, but I wonder whether it's all a little too much for him.

Just wanted to say you are not alone.

I recently posted about my two boys (similar age gap) and their perpetual arguments.

Hope you can get some peace in your household.

Thanks everyone. At the very least it's nice to hear your children play you up at times as well! DD is 3 months old, so whilst I would love to give more one on one time, both DH and I are running in empty at the moment. I know it's part and parcel of having a small baby... but phew, I'll be glad when she starts to sleep through!

I didn't even think of separate baths though. Doh! DH normally does baths but certainly I will divided and conquer until he comes back.

Do you think the school behaviour is just in response to things being a little chaotic at home?

Do you think the school behaviour is just in response to things being a little chaotic at home?

Most likely!

You said yourself that they're really tired; long school days, the disruption caused by a baby and the reduction in your (you and dh) energy and capacity to manage them... recipe for chaos. 7 is also a tough age this too shall pass.

Do you bathe them every night? Unless they're utterly filthy, it's not really necessary. You could do one each night cutting down on fighting time. That may help with some of the gruntvwork.