Is it really good for small children to go to nursery/childminder?

[Londonmamabychance]

This morning, as I dropped of my 2-year-old, she cried. As I waved 'bye, bye' to her and went for the door, she burst out in the saddest cry, and was immediately given a cuddle from her favourite nursery worker, who held her close and comforting in her arms. What stuck with me most after I left the nursery was the type of cry: It wasn't the angry and surprised cry of a child who's not used to being left with other adults by its mum, it was the sad and knowing cry of a child who knows that yet again, mummy is leaving, and I will spend the whole day away from her.
And so I wondered for the millionth time: Am I doing the right thing, working four days a week and leaving her at nursery from 8.30 - 5.30? Yes, it is an absolutely wonderful nursery, all the staff are loving and well educated and its Ofsted outstanding. DD clearly enjoys being with her little friends and talks about them all the time, and enjoys all the activities they do at nursery. And she does not cry every day she is dropped off, most often her dad drops her off and she cries only on very rare occasions when he drops her off. And she is always bright and happy when I come to pick her up.
But wouldn't she be happier, and thrive more, if she spend more time - maybe even all her time - with her mum or dad, being taken to play groups and play dates regularly? I know that for us, at the moment, it is a hypothetical question. We cannot afford for me to stop working, and with a new baby arriving in two months’ time, I will need her to go to nursery at least some days for a while, as I settle in with the new baby, having no family or close friends around who can help out.
Secondly, I do enjoy working and succeeding professionally, and part of me thinks it's important to show DD that it is possible to be a working mum, that is not so that women must do all the childcare while the men make the money. That there’s a point in her doing well in school. Ideally, I would like both DH and I to work part time, so that we could share the childcare 50/50, but as his salary is double of mine, that is not financially possible.
But honestly, are we doing the best for our children when we put them in childcare, so that we can go to work? Or are we depriving them of spending time with the people who love them the most, their parents?

[SparkyBlue]

There is no perfect solution (well actually yes there is, I could win the euro millions and dh and myself could live lives of luxury without working ) we all have to do what's best for our own family. Just chatting about this with my colleague the other day and she was saying they could if they really had to scrape by with one wage in their house but then come winter she does not want to worry about how long the heating is on for or panic if she needs to pay for car repairs etc. I work part time which is great but to be honest my dc love the time they spend at nursery with their little friends and I think I bore them sometimes.

[stillwantrachelshair]

I'm not sure all cm do offer a quieter environment. Yes, they do during the school day when there are no over 8s (outside ratios) around but, during the holidays & after school, it can be very different. Yes, some of these over 8s may love playing with little ones but others will see them as an annoyance.
As for it being very sad that missing your work is detrimental for your child, well, that is how I found it. I am used to working in a fast paced, stimulating environment. Being at home made we want to scream. It was the endless repetition that really did my head in. As with other areas of my life, if you can afford it, why not pay the best person you can afford to do something?

[RedCrab]

I have something to admit: when working mothers say something to effect of they couldn't stand being at home all day because they miss the stimulation of work and using their brains, I feel the sting of insecurity that that means I'm less bright, less in need of stimulation, that somehow I am inferior. I think most of the time, they mean it as a self-deprecreating thing, like they think actually it's a fault with them (I just don't have the patience to be that kind of mummy at home) but this is the flipside of the coin, isn't it? Every time I hear it, I just flinch a little. You need more stimulation than me; Me and my brain must be inferior.

I try to remember it always feels like we're being off-set against each other. Always. That we don't intend to make each other feel this way. I'm sure there's working mothers that feel insecure they're not "good" mothers because they don't want to stay at home and be all nurturing and Mary Poppins-like. We just can't bloody win.

[NickyEds]

No, we can't bloody win. A lot of it is how you take things:
-"I need to use my brain"- am I stupid?
-"I need to make a contribution"- shit, am I not?
-"I couldn't be at home all day"- am I a bad mother because of this?
-"I want t o work another day a week"- are they in nursery too long?

The happiest mothers I know are the ones who are secure in their choice (and, of course had a choice). I honestly don't believe men worry even a fraction as much.

[Londonmamabychance]

redcrab I think it's great you bring up the feeling of insecurity you get when you hear working Mothers say that they need more stimulation than what they get staying at home. Many people often also (I'm
Sure absolutely not intended to offend or hurt) use the phrase 'need to use my brain'. As a working mum, I also flinch at these statements - although I'm sure that they're not meant to offend. They are probably just shorthand for "I need more adult company", "I need more variety", "I need to get out the house", "A large part of my identity is my job and I miss that part of me", "I feel
Lonely at home", "I love what I do for a living and I miss it", "childcare can be monotonous" and many other things, which have to do with the unique situation of that person, I.e. How is their situation being at home and how is their situation at work.

I don't think I used my brain any less
When I was on maternity leave for a year. I used it in a different way, but it was not a way that was inferior to the way I use it at my job outside the home. Figuring out how to best raise a child and run a household is a tremendously complicated task requiring both 'classic' and emotional intelligence at no lower level than most "highly qualified jobs" (whatever that means). Also, not working outside the home does not necessarily mean that you take no interest in the outside world. You can still follow the news, read books, be involved in your local
Community, learn a foreign language, be crafty, etc etc. Or maybe you prefer focusing on the kids and running the household, to which I'd say that IS stimulating and exhausting and using your brain. You may just prefer working , for a multitude of reasons.

An important thing to remember is that no matter what you do, work or stay at home, there will be good days and bad days, days where you hate it and days where you love it and meh in between days. Days where you think you made the right choice and days you think you made the wrong choice. Which is the reason I started this thread, and is been extremely helpful to hear so many different opinions and experiences!

[Londonmamabychance]

nicky you're right, men don't worry that way, because for them working is still
The dominating born and most aren't given a choice. Sometimes I say I feel sorry for them not being able to be on maternity leave and generally having to fight prejudice if they chose to be the stay at home parent, but honestly, I think men still have the easier end of the deal, and women have to struggle a lot more to achieve something that feels like balance, and struggle more internally too, in order to accept the choices we make, because if you look at the history of western society, then women Working outside the home is still a relatively new thing and we haven't got so many norms for it and footsteps to follow in.

[Londonmamabychance]

redcrab just thought some more about it, and in fact I think that the reason we express our desire to work outside he home in terms of "need stimulation" or "need to use my brain" is because society as a whole and most of us still place a higher value on work traditionally done by men. I.e. work outside the home. We still feel proud that we can do what men traditionally did. But men don't want to, and don't feel
Proud if they can do what women traditionally did. Well, a few might, but most men don't see any pride in being great at cleaning and changing nappies. And that is shit.

Having done both, I think in many ways working at home is much harder than outside the home. At a job the achievements and targets are much simpler, and you get easier satisfaction by solving a task well and getting praise. Only very rarely do things go exactly to plan when kids are involved! And although someone may still praise a SAHM for her well behaved children or the lovely cake she made, the weight of the praise never comes near how Important it feels to be praised for a task well done at work. Because the things we women can do at home almost still feel like they're something we ought to be able to do anyway, not even an achievement. Even though it's hair as bloody hard if not even harder. But when men change nappies and are great house husbands they get never ending praise for being so "good" because it's still it the norm. And they still also get praise for what they do at work.

[museumum]

It's such a different "using my brain" though. I work in an area where I do lots of thinking, deep thinking, mind mapping, looking for patterns and analysing.
That is so so so different from the instant, always on the go reacting to ten things at once of childcare with young children!!
Yes the second does require using your brain but it's not what I think of when I talk about "thinking" in fact I'd say thinking time is exactly what I didn't get when home for mat leave and I was far too tired to do any deep thinking when I got time "off" from childcare.

[Grammar]

It's ghastly, isn't it? But (anecdotedly) one of the best and most balanced teens I know was in childcare from 8 weeks (10 hours a day) 5 days a week. She's smashing as a 14 your old.
You will never know what is best (It's like paying for private education), you just have to follow your intuition...which may sometimes collide with your rational/necessary side.
She sounds like she's nurtured and cared for. I would not spend too much time beating yourself up about this.

[Londonmamabychance]

museum of course it's a different way of thinking. You are using a different area of your brain for tasks associated with analysing and mind mapping etc. What I'm questioning is simply why it is that we seem to call the type of thinking that is done in jobs traditionally carried out by men "deep thinking" and "using your brain" and award this with high salaries and accolades, while we view the type of thinking associated with tasks traditionally carried out by women as not really using your brain or thinking deeply? Of course it's nonsense, as brain science shows us that it's just different areas of the brain being used. The fact that you're too mentally tired to do the kind of thinking you normally do at your job after a day of childcare shows you that you've used your brain plenty ; )

[museumum]

I still think that it's a figure of speech that is quite obvious what people mean by it and not intended to imply that sahms somehow bumble through their day without thinking or using their brain at all.

[Nan0second]

The right solution is the right solution for your own family.
DD 17 months has 2 days with me (part time) 1 day with her father (full time but a regular weekday off) and 2 long days with a childminder. She doesn't watch tv at the childminder and I love the fact she gets taken out In the car to music groups like Sing and sign or music and movement.

It's the right mix of parenting, earning, career and childcare. It works for us and that is all that matters.
I never feel guilty though and neither does her father. She's safe and happy and they are the two things that matter above all else.

[Londonmamabychance]

museum I see what you mean, but I don't think that it's unimportant how we use language. Figures of speech reveal deep rooted prejudices and societal structures, and also concretely influence how we think about the world. Obvs, some SAHM's do feel uncomfortable with that figure of speech, so that in its own tells you it matters.

[Londonmamabychance]

Nanosecond sounds like you got the right mix for your family. I think for us the mix isn't too bad, but ideally we'd like DH to spend more time with our daughter, but his job and industry doesn't allow it.

[Stillwishihadabs]

I went back when ds was 11 months and again when dd was 5 months. Ds continued nursery while I was off with dd. They are now 10 and 12 and I am so glad I kept working, for so many reasons, some for me (mental stimulation, self esteem) but more for my relationship with DH ( I have supported him financially and would again-we have an equitable and flexible relationship and enough money for domestic help) and far more for the dcs ( they appreciate having 2 working/ earning parents, they see us sharing the childcare and negotiating who is going to be where when. They believe that women and men can cook, look after children and work. Most importantly having continued in both our careers we both have the ability to work reasonably flexibly and be there for them now when they need us).

[RedCrab]

I do think language is important but I don't think any of us intend to make to other feel bad. And it cuts both ways - when SAHM talk about their motivations to be with their children using language like "I didn't want to leave them", that is potentially hurtful to Wotking mothers - because it implies, oh yeah I didn't mind AT ALL leaving my children.

I do think we say these things as way of compensation for what we might perceive as our own "failings" and justification for our decisions, though. Like a PP said, the happiest people are people most secure in their decisions.

[buckyou]

You still have to run a household and think how best to bring up your children if they go to nursery!

Can't people just go to work if they want or stay at home if they want? I don't know wy it has to be a competition all the time, which one is best.

[Londonmamabychance]

redcrab I think pure right that of course nobody says these things to hurt others or make others feel bad. Never meant that. I just mean that it's a good idea to think about what we say and why so if become aware of some unfortunate ways of expressing yourself you can change it.

And I really agree as a working other I feel the sting when people say "I didn't want to leave my kids" and the like. And it's true the happiest people are he ones who are secure in their choices. However, I also think it's quite normal and widespread not always to be secure in your choices, and when people say things to justify their own choices which are different to yours this can cause pinto feel bad. Of course this is just as much your issue as theirs. I personally know very, very few people who seem certain of the choices 100 pct of the time.

[Londonmamabychance]

buckyou I don't know if it has to be a competition, I don't see it that way, I just personally asked myself recently if I was happy with my choices.

[thethoughtfox]

All the research says there are only negatives for under 3s but after age 3 they can benefit from the social interaction

[noblegiraffe]

Blanket comments like 'all the research shows negatives for under 3s' are exceptionally unhelpful.

For a start a lot of research is based in the US where maternity leave is usually only a few weeks. Secondly it doesn't say anything about hours spent in childcare. Thirdly it doesn't says anything about the quality of childcare. Fourthly it doesn't say anything about the comparative care the parent (usually mother) would be capable of providing. Fifthly it doesn't say anything about the quality of homelife if there is no second income. Sixthly it makes no mention of the mental well-being or otherwise of the parent who stays at home and whether this is a choice for them.

[feelingdizzy]

I have been a single parent since my kids were tiny ,now teens.They went to a childminders for years,they still talk of her fondly.For me I wanted the kids to have a significant relationship with someone else,as they only had me.This home environment worked for them.
In terms of feeling guilt,my first job is to keep them alive,feed and clothe them, so I had to work.Honestly at the time I wouid have felt some guilt,but now it does seem to have helped,their development they are great kids.
For us a good childminder provided stability during a very unstable time,let me work,and provided the kids with a quality relationship with another adult.A lifesaver to us.

[RedCrab]

london yes definitely agree. I am definitely not secure in my choices. Which is probably why I've been guilty of over-egging the reasons for my choices (and probably unintentionally making working mothers feel bad in the process)

Parenting is the one thing that really matters to all of us. It doesn't really change as they get older. Ds is starting reception next year and and I can see the insecurity of all my friends as they choose schools. There's an element of "why are you not picking the same school as me?" A certain kind of vibe. We all so desperately want to make the right choices, don't we?

My friend has a dd the same age as my ds. My dd will be going to pre school soon and she asked me where dd would be going. I had just sort of assumed the same place as ds as I know them, they're lovely and it's a lovely place. But my friend keeps suggesting the pre school her DD went to. I'd already said The reasons I was happy with the choice I made but she keeps suggesting it. Slightly annoying but I have to ask myself why it's important enough to her to keep bringing it up. Insecurity in her own choice? Sincere belief her choice was better?