Is it really good for small children to go to nursery/childminder?

[Londonmamabychance]

This morning, as I dropped of my 2-year-old, she cried. As I waved 'bye, bye' to her and went for the door, she burst out in the saddest cry, and was immediately given a cuddle from her favourite nursery worker, who held her close and comforting in her arms. What stuck with me most after I left the nursery was the type of cry: It wasn't the angry and surprised cry of a child who's not used to being left with other adults by its mum, it was the sad and knowing cry of a child who knows that yet again, mummy is leaving, and I will spend the whole day away from her.
And so I wondered for the millionth time: Am I doing the right thing, working four days a week and leaving her at nursery from 8.30 - 5.30? Yes, it is an absolutely wonderful nursery, all the staff are loving and well educated and its Ofsted outstanding. DD clearly enjoys being with her little friends and talks about them all the time, and enjoys all the activities they do at nursery. And she does not cry every day she is dropped off, most often her dad drops her off and she cries only on very rare occasions when he drops her off. And she is always bright and happy when I come to pick her up.
But wouldn't she be happier, and thrive more, if she spend more time - maybe even all her time - with her mum or dad, being taken to play groups and play dates regularly? I know that for us, at the moment, it is a hypothetical question. We cannot afford for me to stop working, and with a new baby arriving in two months’ time, I will need her to go to nursery at least some days for a while, as I settle in with the new baby, having no family or close friends around who can help out.
Secondly, I do enjoy working and succeeding professionally, and part of me thinks it's important to show DD that it is possible to be a working mum, that is not so that women must do all the childcare while the men make the money. That there’s a point in her doing well in school. Ideally, I would like both DH and I to work part time, so that we could share the childcare 50/50, but as his salary is double of mine, that is not financially possible.
But honestly, are we doing the best for our children when we put them in childcare, so that we can go to work? Or are we depriving them of spending time with the people who love them the most, their parents?

[noblegiraffe]

I sent my DS to the childminder 2 or 3 days a week (I can't remember) when I had my DD. He loved going to the childminder and saw all his friends there. The alternative was staying at home with me and DD while I breastfed on the sofa half the time, was shushing him to be quiet while she napped, and fobbing him off with CBeebies while I tried to grab some sleep the rest of the time. Then the bloody weaning phase where the time is spent cleaning goop off the kitchen ready for the next feeding session. He would have felt pretty neglected.

I also suck at childcare. I hate going to groups, I hate going to the park and I'm not a big fan of being outside. I've got a friend who is a SAHM, she loves other people's children, she's the kind of person whose crafty efforts you'd see on Pinterest, she has got herself on committees and stuff. She's really good at being a SAHM. My DC benefit from childcare.

[Mouthofmisery]

Agree with noble too. It's only recent generations who feel it's solely the mothers/ fathers responsibility. As families live further and further away from one another something needs to take their place. Nurseries are great for stimulation, social and emotional development. Speech and language and crafts etc. There are so many positives. I send my daughter 2 days a week and I am a better mother because of it and we have clean clothes and nice fresh meals as well! As she isn't hanging off me at home!

[heyohh]

I worked in childcare (senior level) until having my own dc. on a personal level it felt wrong for me to be caring for other people's children whilst mine were being cared for elsewhere.

over the years I have also experienced such a range in the care provided that I wouldn't have felt comfortable using a nursery. I have never witnessed children being neglected or mistreated but it's not the same as being cared for by somebody who loves them.

I do think children who attend nursery do better at school, there's a definite advantage in social and language skills.

I decided to become a sahm as that's what we feel is best for our family. there's definitely sacrifices either way and I think at the end of the day most parents are doing what's best for their children be that working or staying at home.

[Matchingbluesocks]

I can hardly bear to read this because it's too close to the bone but just wanted to come and support the OP because I hear ya

And because I don't think I can bear to read past page 1 I will just say whatabloodyidiot you're aptly named, although given half a chance I'd call you far worse

[Whatabloodyidiot1]

Four pages in matching and everybody has aired there opinions without it descending into a slanging match. Then you come along.
The op opened a discussion and asked for opinions, I gave mine, it's not wrong, it's not right, it's just different to yours. So grow up and read the thread in the spirit it's intended, if you cant do that then fuck off to netmums where you'll get all the 'awwww hun, big hugz' you obviously need.

[museumum]

I think utopia for a toddler would be a commune of parents and kids.
But for my ds, staying home with just me and meeting random others at library sing alongs, then meeting up with actual real friends once or twice a week (cause they each work 3-4 days) would not be better than his current setup of nursery 3x a week, granny 1x a week me 1x weekday and dh and I at weekends.
He adores nursery and is learning so much about how social groups work.

[Matchingbluesocks]

Oh fuck off idiot

[Whatabloodyidiot1]

It obviously is all a bit too close to home for you, cool off and rejoin when you're feeling a little more rational and able to actually join in the discussion without sounding like a petulant child.

[Ilovenannyplum]

I haven't RTFT but I just wanted to say that you're not alone, leaving 2yr old DS at nursery makes my heart hurt, I absolutely hate it.

I'd give my right arm to be a full time SAHM but unfortunately I have to work, I haven't got a choice. Luckily, I only work 3 days per week but it's still time I'm spending away from my little boy

[RitchyBestingFace]

I agree with everything motherinferior has said on this thread.

I don't feel guilty about providing my children with financial security, opportunities, a work ethic, a community of lovely caring adults and baby/toddler friends, role-modeling an equal relationship - nope, no guilt.

Sometimes it's hard (as in the example cited by the OP) but for me the alternative would be far harder - what would happen if the 'breadwinner' lost their job? Their health? What if they left? These have all happened to both me and my friends.

It's the quality of the care that matters, not the setting - you get amazing nurseries and shit SAHMs - and vice versa.

[timealone]

OP, I do think if she is generally happy there then you should focus on that and not today's drop off. I have a 2 year old at nursery too and DH normally does the drop off. Recently he moved up a room, and although he was really excited about the new room, I think he found it a big adjustment as the environment was a lot more stimulating. He was quite hesitant to go in when DH dropped him off, but no tears. Then one day when I dropped him off, he was very upset, and I think the change of routine with me dropping him off made the reaction much worse.

Fast forward a month and he is now completely settled in the new room, and loves talking about his friends and keyworker. He trots in happily in the morning and often doesn't want to leave when I pick him up.

In your case, it seems likely that the change of routine at drop off might be part of the cause. But also, just because she would prefer to be with you today doesn't mean she doesn't like nursery.

[waterrat]

I don't think there is a simple answer.

Truthfully I think it probably is hard for littl3 ones sometimes to see mummy head off again. I worked from early on with both of mine and it was vital for my own sanity.

That doesn't mean I can't admit that my children might have enjoyed being with me more than they were . Or thst maybe they would have benefited from less time in childcsre.

It's all a balance. Find the absolute best childcare and try yo get a balance between your own needs and your child's.

Will you be reducing your nursery time when you are on mat leave ? It doesn't matter if there is a lot of watching TV. ..I regret sending my oldest to three days of childcare a week on mat leave with number 2.

Honestly now I see how fast time passes and he is at school I wish I had just had him on the sofa watching telly with me and the baby a bit more !

[waterrat]

Just to add. I think absolutely it is beneficial for young children to have relationships with other adults and get stimulation and input while parents get a break. Being at work allowed me to recharge.

The friendships my two kids have at their childminder are amazing. Like siblings.

[Londonmamabychance]

Motherinferior the no-telly rule isn't at all difficult to live by since my nursery doesn't show the kids telly? Also, I do of course intend to let DD watch telly in moderation once she gets older, all I said was I do not agree with it for small kids, and by that I meant under threes. I can only speak from my own experienfe, but when DD watches TV, she just sits like a zombie staring at the screen, and yes, does occassionally sing along to a song or repeat a word said in the show (this is watching Peppa or similar), but this is nothing she could not get from reading a book with me or her dad, a situation which would also give her the benefit of interaction with us and physical contact, as well as a responsive person who would interact with her rather than a screen that just hypnotises her with images. I also find that when I want to turn it off, she gets upset and cries and afterwards is in a mood. Not something that happens with other activities, where she can do one thing and then go seamlesly to the next. I also hate how her little body is all inactive while she watches it, I love seeing her explore the multidimesional real world, and not just sitting there staring at a screen. God knows there'll be enough of this in her teenage/adult life, the way the world is going! I do appreciate that some shows can have educational content, and that there's also nothing wrong with a bit of pure entertainment sometimes, and also, that it can sometimes be necessary to use tv to keep kids entertained while doing stuff, but as it hasn't at all been difficult for me to avoid showing DD telly, and her nursery doesn't do it, it hasn't been a problem for me so far. I realise this will change once she grows older, and I'm not planning to keep her in some crazy TV-isolation for the rest of her life, just making the most of this time where it's not a necessary thing.

[Londonmamabychance]

User14 good for you that you've found a model that works for you and that you feel good about. I haven't decided to keep DD in nursery for all of mat leave (and she's only 4 days a week as it is, so will be with me and baby one day as it is anyway) I just decided to keep her there for the beginning, while I settle in with the new baby and see how we get on. Who knows if the new baby will be easy going, healthy etc., and how DD will respond to the new baby. I just want to keep the option open to keep her in nursery if I feel taht being at home with both doesn't work for the kids and/or me. DH comes home quite late, like 8pm each night and I have absolutely no family or close friends around, so everything will be done by me, cooking, cleaning, all childcare, so I am imagining having both kids home all day could get quite exhausting. i realise lots of women do this, and I'm in awe of them, I'm just not really a great housewife, I can't cook for my life as i've always worked loads in my career and enver had time or interest to develop that skill, and I'm not interested in home decor or generally very into homely stuff. I love, love kids and arts and crafts and reading stories etc., but all the other house stuff I'm pretty rubbish at, and I hold my hands up to that! I know lots of women who take genuine pleasure in cooking and baking and keeping a nice and cosy home and fold all the clothes neatly and I cherish being in their lovely homes and often wish I had this feature in my character, please believe me I'm not being condescending and seeing homeliness as something inferior to work outside the home, but I just don't have this character trait, so have given up trying to turn myself into someone I'm not.

[Londonmamabychance]

2015 mum Lego and others who made similar points, it's a good point that the kids learn to be more outgoing and get used to being with others in nursery/at CM's/pre-school. I never even considered that aspect, but I guess it's true that it's good for them to learn this before they start school.

Motherinferior it's great taht you don't feel guilty, I am striving not to feel guilty and having this discussion on here is part of that process, to identify if my feeling of guilt is justified or a product of patriarchy! ; )

[Londonmamabychance]

waterrat interesting point that you now wish you'd spend more time with them at home now ehen they're older. i do think about that too, so I will see, if things go smoothly with the new baby and I find we can enjoy days togtehr all three of us, I may reduce DD's hours. At the moment I'm just keeping all options open. I should also say that we live in a one-bed with no garden, so it can also get a bit claustrophobic, I imagine if I had more space and/or a garden I would feel more inclined to keep DD at home as there'd be more for her to do without me having to get us all dressed and go to the park/playgroups etc. Now I'm at the point where I'd love to get DD more toys and even turning down bigger hand-me down ones that I know she'd like to play with, because there simply isn't space for them. In nursery she has a wide variety of things to explore, plus her friends, so in a way I think I could treayt it as a playgroup while I'm on mat leave, drop her there to get some stimualtion and interaction with other kids and adults while I get more time to rest/focus on baby, and then pick her up earlier than is the case now to spend time with us.

[Londonmamabychance]

haha, just re-read my own recent posts and realise how many excuses I'm making for considering to keep DD in nursery while on mat leave! I obvs. feel guilty about it, but you ladies know what, I just don't get how anyone can survive at home with a baby and a toddler and no help at all, to me it sounds super stresfull and all I can imagine is me holding a crying baby that needs a nappy change while DD has opened the kitchen drawers and making a huge mess and calling for me "mummy, mummy,'" and me looking haggard after having been breastfeeding all night, and then me ending up shouting "stoooop it!" to DD and her crying and then me feeling guilty.

Yes, this is how I imagine that situation and i feel like I'm a bad mother/woman for not being able to handle being at home alone with two small kids, but I just don't think I could, and I think it's wrong that I feel bad for not thinking I could handle it. I think it's part of this whole mothers have to be perfectculture we still live in, so sod it!

[NickyEds]

Sod it indeed! I had dd when ds was 19 months the old and it was just us with no family help- it was quite tough and I'm not convinced I was altogether the best mother in the world for the first 6 months of dd's life. If your dd is settled in nursery the I would leave her, at least for a few months. On the whole I love being a SAHP and wouldn't chose any other way- I certainly don't think it holds small children back in any way. I find it quite hard to hear people say how advanced their babies are from being at nursery, that dc with SAHMs lack social skills etc. My ds had speech delay (but has come on loads recently )and several people made me feel as though it was my fault for being at home, despite SALT and hv insisting it wasn't. I think variety is a big bonus in being a SAHM- we do lots of different things together and I take it quite seriously.

I don't think good quality nursery/cm are damaging for children either- my friends dc are thriving at both and there is definitely nothing to feel guilt about. As much as I love being a SAHM I think that doing it under sufferance would be utterly miserable for both mother and child.

[Jackiebrambles]

Late to this but don't feel bad about keeping her in nursery when you are on mat leave. I kept everything the same for my ds when his sister came along. There was enough upheaval at home! Also it was lovely to snuggle with her feeding on the sofa and have some time just us two. I'm back at work now and they are both at nursery 4 days a week and I rarely get to give them individual attention so I'm really glad I did that.

Also I find it bloody hard looking after a toddler and baby. Bloody hard. My day alone with them both (my day off) is the hardest day of my week!

Also, sometimes they cry at drop off. It's awful and you feel like shit. Kids do the same when they start school don't they? But most people are agreed that they just have to get used to it as it benefits them ultimately.

I wouldn't be happy with tv at the child minder either. To be honest as I'm paying I'd expect better care than I could offer at home, and they watch too much tv at home with me because I'm crap!!!

[Lilacpink40]

I think keeping your DD in nursery gives her playtime with friends, lessons in getting on socially (so going to school will be easier), well planned activities from non-sleep deprived carers and you keep more sanity with newborn. It's not the whole week and when your baby is a few months old you may find things easier.

My DCs cried when I left them (3 long days a week), but were fine in the day and found joining school fairly easy.

[Bananasinpyjamas1]

I do think that SAHM until a child goes to school is assumed to be the gold standard. However this is just an assumption. That is why most parents seem to feel guilt or to justify working, but not the other way around.

I think it is important to spend several months for one carer to bond and tune into a baby. My ideal would be that they would then get used to one or two more carers who completely bonded with the child. And then as they grow, I think a rich environment does help, whether that is a nursery part-time, or relatives or carers. I do think just one on one with Mum for 4 - 5 years isn't particularly healthy.

I worked with my first child, and have been SAHM for my second, big age gap. Personally I have loved the luxury of being a SAHM, and for the first two years of my child's life, I think they benefitted from having me around. However my first child was very active and needed a huge amount of stimulation, and they really thrived at nursery.

[Londonmamabychance]

Jackie I hear you! I'm dreading the one day a week with both the kids! Have already started thinking about putting in activities to keep us all sane, or even possibly occassionally getting a nanny to come over for a few hours! and then i feel weak and shit for thinking I won't be able to handle it. But I think a big part of the problem today is that we don't live in tribal/village communitites or with extended families, so each mum is alone in their house with their kids, struggling, with no one to lend a helping hand, even ig just for an hour. The relentlessness of a whole day of childcare comppletely on your own is what I find exhausting. When ever my mum is around (v rarely) I find it such a big help when she looks after DD, even if just for 1 hour while I tidy or take a shower. Just the feeling of not being all alone is what helps, too.

Lila and Banana glad to hear that your kids enjoyed and benefitted from nursery.

[Jackiebrambles]

I'll share with you my coping strategies!

I found that on my day alone with the kids I have to:

• have a plan the day before (ie what are we going to do -playgroup, park, playdate, whatever)
  
• have the bags packed for going out (snacks, spare clothes, everything)
  
• have cooked something so I can just reheat for dinner (shepherds pie/lasagne etc). My eldest doesn't nap so there's no respite or time to prepare a meal beyund cooking veg/reheating.
  

Then without fail we always go out in the morning. That wears the older one out and gives the younger one the chance to nap on the move. Then out for lunch or home. Then baby naps in the afternoon and I can have one on one time with the eldest/Cbeebies (in my house!).

Don't feel bad at all. I totally get you. Some people are just made to look after young kids. I find it very hard, am not a natural! (and we also have no help nearby).

[RedCrab]

The red herring in all of this is that we're always being made to feel that there is a "better" alternative to the one we're able to offer.

We were able to choose for me to stay at home. We made financial sacrifices because we believed it was best for our family. Yet somehow in the midst of all that decision making and the supposedly "best" thing for our child, I became insecure I wasn't doing the right thing - that I wasn't able to do all the socialisation and learning childcare could. My child was two years old Ffs! I look back now and wonder where mum head was at that I was worrying about it all.

I had a friend who went back to work. She said she couldn't offer her DD all the opportunities childcare could. This just made me feel a bit sad because I don't believe a toddler needs tons of learning and crafts and structured activities. They just need to play in a secure and nurturing environment most of the time - there's absolutely no reason childcare can't and doesn't offer that too, but it made me feel sad my friend doubted her abilities as a parent so much that she didn't think she could offer her DD that too.

I've been a SAHM for four years now. Dd was born when DS was 2.4. It was months later that he started pre school when his free hours kicked in. I'm now pregnant with DC3. Truth be told, mostly we just hang out. We don't do many structured activities. Sometimes we paint but not often. We go to one group a week. We mostly read and play and spend lots of time in the park because I don't mind being outside for hours a day. It's not especially "stimulating" like I imagine structured childcare to be. For me personally it gets boring and mundane but for the children, I hope, it's relaxed and nurturing. Relaxed is the most important to me as we approach school for DS.

I think would have been perfectly fine in childcare had I gone back to work. As it turned out, I kept up my career by working freelance in the evening. Exhausted doesn't begin to cover it But I was scared of becoming unemployable and I would be with four years out of the workforce.

All my rambling...I'm just trying to make the point I don't think there is a "best" option. Children don't miss out by not going into childcare. What's to miss out? They just need familiarity, certainty and safety. Children at home don't miss out on socialisation or learning. Parents can offer what childcare can. Equally childcare can offer the nurturing care a parent can. They can offer relaxed play and comfort and the fun that a parent can. Somewhere along the line, we've been sold the idea that there is a "better". There really isn't. There's only what's best for your family.