Is it really good for small children to go to nursery/childminder?

[Londonmamabychance]

This morning, as I dropped of my 2-year-old, she cried. As I waved 'bye, bye' to her and went for the door, she burst out in the saddest cry, and was immediately given a cuddle from her favourite nursery worker, who held her close and comforting in her arms. What stuck with me most after I left the nursery was the type of cry: It wasn't the angry and surprised cry of a child who's not used to being left with other adults by its mum, it was the sad and knowing cry of a child who knows that yet again, mummy is leaving, and I will spend the whole day away from her.
And so I wondered for the millionth time: Am I doing the right thing, working four days a week and leaving her at nursery from 8.30 - 5.30? Yes, it is an absolutely wonderful nursery, all the staff are loving and well educated and its Ofsted outstanding. DD clearly enjoys being with her little friends and talks about them all the time, and enjoys all the activities they do at nursery. And she does not cry every day she is dropped off, most often her dad drops her off and she cries only on very rare occasions when he drops her off. And she is always bright and happy when I come to pick her up.
But wouldn't she be happier, and thrive more, if she spend more time - maybe even all her time - with her mum or dad, being taken to play groups and play dates regularly? I know that for us, at the moment, it is a hypothetical question. We cannot afford for me to stop working, and with a new baby arriving in two months’ time, I will need her to go to nursery at least some days for a while, as I settle in with the new baby, having no family or close friends around who can help out.
Secondly, I do enjoy working and succeeding professionally, and part of me thinks it's important to show DD that it is possible to be a working mum, that is not so that women must do all the childcare while the men make the money. That there’s a point in her doing well in school. Ideally, I would like both DH and I to work part time, so that we could share the childcare 50/50, but as his salary is double of mine, that is not financially possible.
But honestly, are we doing the best for our children when we put them in childcare, so that we can go to work? Or are we depriving them of spending time with the people who love them the most, their parents?

[MrsJayy]

I was a sahp was sort of forced i have a disability i couldnt do both and Dh earned more than i ever could I worked with preschoolers so we did what worked for us,
anyway sah can be isolating and frustrating ime it wasnt all endless craft projects and cosy days in and I think me and my Dc would have benefitted from me out of the house some days and I was glad of playgroups then nursery.
What im waffiling on about is being a parent is not easy deciding what to do for the best is not easy and your situation does not need to be static you can change your childcare you could change your work hours but it might never be for the best iyswim.

[WildDigestive]

OP, re-reading your post, while I sympathise, it sounds to me as if your daughter was possible responding to your dropping her off rather than her father, and the switch of dropping off parent possible unsettled her slightly? Rather than it being any genuine underlying unhappiness...?

I have never felt a single second's guilt at my son going to a childminder from ten months, and I think anyone who thinks that maternal guilt is some kind of inevitability should give themselves a shake (in a nice, bracing way) and realise it's largely a fairly reactionary media creation, as is the notion that women working and having children is unreasonable, impossible and and 'having it all'. There still seems to be a widespread perception that maternal guilt and stress is the price you pay for 'having it all', which is pretty arbitrary, when you think about it.

Women working is not only OK 'if your family needs the salary', and the implication that SAHMs should feel 'grateful' because they don't 'have to work' only makes sense if you want to be a SAHM. Many women (and men) don't.

I work FT, as does DH, all our family and close friends are distant or in another country, and I'm not run ragged, exhausted or suffering from 'having it all'-itis. Neither is DS, now a delightful 4 year old, some kind of hardened old lag from long days is childcare.

[RedPaint37]

i agree mrs jayy my dd2 is 2 and across the 2 dc i've been through ft and pt work options, 4 different nurseries, a pt nanny and i can't say i've found the golden egg at the end of the beanstalk either, i just try and do my best day by day. My mum was a SAHP and she got terribly depressed and never fully recovered. She never made a choice to SAH, she couldn't afford childcare.

[clumsyduck]

Well I was a single mum for the first few years and so felt I had to work to support us I reached a good balance I think by dropping to part time so some days I was at home and we'd do all the nice things such as baking seeing friends / cousins toddler groups etc but I was also earning so we could still have some disposable income to afford the above . Also looking ahead if I'd have had a 5 years gap in employment in my chosen career unfortunately I think I'd struggle to get back into it and I enjoy my job and am proud of what I do which in turn I think makes me a more fulfilled person sorry that sounds so cheesey but it does ! Luckily I had family around for childcare so nursery was kept to a minimum but I upped it for the "pre school " stage for the social/ educational benefits for dc

Also op once they start school they are out the house most the day anyway !!

[Tigresswoods]

It's such a personal thing. My DS6 was in full time childcare a lot from 10m to when he went to school.

He's v rounded, polite, able to speak to adults, confident, will walk to school with me, club or other families.

But maybe he'd be like this if he stayed home? Who knows ?

He has friends who are the same age who can ONLY be walked to/from school by their mums as they aren't used to being with others. Admittedly they are the minority.

I really don't think you're doing her any damage using childcare. It's all about balance.

[gillybeanz]

I agree it's the quality that counts.
We didn't use childcare at all and our dc never went to pre school, but they had the best alternative and it suited us fine.
We both treated it as a job, the same as a childcare worker would. Dh did what he could when he was there and I did the rest.
We educated them properly and believed in teaching discipline and socialisation before they started school.
We also made sure they had lots of opportunity to play with other children and socialise with people of all ages.

If we had both worked full time the alternative would have been a nursery or childminder and I'm sure had it been the same provision as we offered the results would have been the same.

[Dozer]

I had this dilemma with DC1. in retrospect, five years later, the problem was that the "outstanding" nurseries she attended just weren't the right kind or quality of care. Too many DC (and germs, she was always ill), not enough staff or attention! Accidents not reported etc.

At the same age, DC2 had an amazing local childminder, and we never once felt the same worry/guilt.

[AndNowItsSeven]

"No child benefits from being at home with a mum who's missing being at work, or from living in a family that's financially strained, as that always creates stress. "
Really that's terribly sad if missing work causes so much stress that it's detrimental to your child!

[NerrSnerr]

We can't afford for me not to work but nursery has been the making of our 2 year old daughter. She is naturally shy and at baby groups (I work 4 days so take her to groups on day off) she is always very close to me and tentative about playing. She is great at nursery and goes happily and loves her friends. I worry if I didn't send her the shyness would have really made transition to education hard when older. The nursery is great though and the staff brilliant.

[Londonmamabychance]

Goodluck I agree with you that the best thing for a child would be to grow up in a tribal type setting. But that doesn't exisit in this modern world.

I looked into childminders as I liked the idea of a more homely and smaller setting. But it would have to be a homely setting I liked, and I didn't really like any of the childminders I visited (5 were available nearby). They either had ethics I didn't agree with (e.g. 1 hours TV a day) or did thing I was nervous about (drove the children to activities by car. had a big dog) or had their own children there as part of the deal, and I felt that the main reason for them being a childminder was that they wanted to saty at home to look after their won child, and that they would, naturally, always put their own child first and not be completely professional about the other children. One even said that when her son was in a bad mood, the otehr children would be taken out of 'his' room and put in the living room, as he needed 'his' space. Sorry, I'm not paying for my child to be second best all day.

Ideally wanted a nanny, hut can't afford one unless I did it all off the books and don't feel comfortable with that. Looked for a nanny share, but no families nearby matched our needs.

In my dream world both DH and I work part time and spend the mornings or afternoons with DD, so she only ever has half days at nursery, and she also spends time with her grandparents or other relatives regularly. But it's not financially or workwise possible in our types of jobs, and our entire family lives abroad.

Sometimes I just wonder how much I should/would be willing to sacrifice in terms of career prospects and materialistic living standard, to spend more time with my kids, and if I would come to regret it, if it would work out, if we tried to restructure our entire lives to spend more time with the children.

So in the end went with a small nursery (15 kids in family groupings).

whatabloodyidiot I completely agree that everything that needs doing in a hosuehold, e.g. making money to pay bills and cooking and doing childcare is all on equal par. The problem is just that if I stayed at home and my DH made all the money, then if something happned to him or we divorced, then I would be left in a pretty bad situation. I do feel that if I was ever to feel unhappy in my marriage, then knowing that I would not be able to take care of myself financially would make it difficult to leave, and for me, just me personally, the daily knowledge that yes, at home I work just as hard - if not even harder! - as he does at work, but at the end of the day, he could manage without me (can cook decently and can always hire a cleaner) but I could not survive without him as I could not pay the bills, would make me feel uncomfortable. But that's just me.

[AndNowItsSeven]

One hour tv a day, driving children to activities and having own children are all totally normal.

[raisedbyguineapigs]

OP why do you think your DD cries when you drop her off, but not when her dad does it? Do you think there is a chance that she is doing it to show you that she loves you, not out of any unhappiness? Otherwise surely she would be just as unhappy when her dad dropped her off? My DC went to nurseries and a childminder from the age of 10 months. They had other children to play with, did activities rather than watch me do housework.
More importantly to me, Because I worked when they were small, I can now be much more flexible with my career now that they are at school. I have 8 years of continuous experience where I would have had a massive hole in my CV. I work, but I still collect them from school most days and have time to do all the homework and after school activities etc.
I have friends who were SAHM's who are either having to train in a new job, meaning that its full time, working in jobs well below their skills so that it fits into school hours, or have not managed to get into suitable work at all, so will now be SAHM for the foreseeable future, whether they like it or not.
I would have hated being at home, so it wasn't some sort of master plan, I didnt even consider it. But I do feel that they are at school for longer than they are at home, and it's worked out for the best for our family. They barely remember nursery now that they are 8 and 5. Even though they loved it and made lots of friends that they know now

[BeardMinge]

I'm with WildDigestive on this one.

My daughter is coming up to 2 and has been with a childminder since 10 months (I went back to work two months early because I was climbing the walls). Having an identity other that being her mum is important to me, as is earning money. She is content, well adjusted and learning far more with the childminder than I suspect she'd be learning with me. The childminder has a brilliant relationship with her, and is like another member of our family now (handy as we have no family support near by).

In the next year she will be moving to nursery and hopefully that will also be a smooth transition. If at any point I felt my child was unhappy I would reassess, but currently this is the best set up for all of us.

[raisedbyguineapigs]

andnowweareseven just because people feel stressed by not working or because they have a career they enjoy doesnt make it sad. It's just that women are different, just like men are different. And financial pressure is always stressful. As is financial insecurity.

[RedPaint37]

it's not just you op, it's me too. Fundamentally not having prospects doesn't sit right with me, I can't do it. My current career is already enough of a compromise. My DH couldn't even see the point of me having life insurance for exactly the reasons you stated, my non work jobs he can afford to hire someone to do. Also I've got a DM and a DGM who were both shouty and depressed SAHP.

[AndNowItsSeven]

Raised by missing your job so much that it impacts negatively on your child is very sad.

[Dozer]

Sounds like you have prejudices about CMs, as we did! As a result of our experience we now have prejudices about nurseries!

One hour TV a day isn't unusual! Ditto journeys by car. Am with you on dogs, although our CM ended up getting a dog!

Our CM's own DC were more likely to miss out than the mindees IME, and she was always fair and professional.

[happy2bhomely]

I don't think childcare does any harm to children and some children are definitely better off in a nursery, for lots of different reasons.

I have been a SAHM for a long, long time. I love it and I believe my children are thriving.

I only commented to my husband yesterday, how much our youngest has changed in the last 6 months since turning 3. She is talking lots more, and has started to enjoy phonics and 'writing'. She is all of a sudden more confident and is so funny. Now if she had started nursery, as most 3 yr olds do, we would most likely have put it down to the nursery having such a positive effect on her.

Our eldest is almost 16 and I have been a SAHM his whole life. He was cared for by only me until he started school at almost 5. He had no trouble settling in and is now a popular, sociable, high achieving young man doing very well at school, with big dreams for his future.

I'm sure he would be doing just as well if I had worked. But I would have suffered. I would have missed out on so much that was important to me. But then, I've also missed out on my education (I had him very young)and a career. I don't have any regrets. We can't have it all.

We all do what we think is best for our children with what we can.

[bookworm14]

I do sympathise with you. We have a very similar set-up - DD (14m) is in nursery 3.5 days a week while I work (I do 4 days at work and DH has her for the other half day). She seems to love nursery but I sometimes feel horribly guilty that I'm not a stay at home mum. The thing is, though, I am actually a better mother because I work. I would be bored and frustrated being at home all the time and would loathe being financially dependent on DH. I know our current set up is the right one for our family. It doesn't stop the guilt though!

[GoodLuckTime]

Totally agree with your take on work. The one WOH one SAP model works for some families but is certainly wouldn't for us. It would unbalance us wildly as a couple, which would make it much more likely to break up, which as you say would leave me in a bad position, undoubtedly worse if I'd not worked for several years. For us this is about the relationship between power and money and family responsibilities. We work best and are happiest when we share these. Happy together parents is a priority for me and my children.

You read plenty on these boards of the classic WOH /SAP spilt working well, but also of it breeding resentment on either side, especially as time goes on. DH did do one day a week for six months when I went back to work (DD was 7 months old) so she only had three days child care and a day with each of us until after she turned one. That made a big difference for me.

You said you are about to go maternity leave? If I were you and really concerned about nursery (rather than just having a wobble /bad day) I would use mat leave as an opportunity to reassess childcare. It might be hard on your older one going off to nursery while you stay at home with the baby. It's the very definition of being left out.

So I'd consider ditching nursery or reducing in favour of a mothers help while on mat leave. Typically cheaper (since they don't have sole responsibility) and easier to find (as other often do it around a school pick up type job). As you'll be there you'll have time to thoroughly road test people and change if it isn't working out. When you find someone that does work out, you may well find that they're willing to do more when it's time for you to go back to work. Many nannies appreciate finding a family they match with as much as the family does.

And it doesn't have to be crazy money. Our nanny is freelance (so sorts her own taxes) as she runs another self employed business doing something else entirely alongside. She also dictates her own hours (e.g. she took six weeks off to go on a trip last winter). So cheaper than the PAYE model but still legit.

That's not uncommon in London for part time care, there are lots of freelancers doing some sort of child care alongside other work.

You won't find them through agencies, you'll have to do it yourself. I've found both our nannies through gumtree. You get 100s of responses to shift through. I do a first cull of possibles, read those applications properly to make a long list of 15-20. I speak to that list on the phone to shift down to who to interview. Then interview 3-5, use your instincts and check references thoroughly. Include a clear trial period. I've hired two great people through that and found two more where the timing / hours didn't quite fit.

[Londonmamabychance]

user14 sounds about right that it's the quality of the provision that matters. And this is why there is funding for 2 year olds from low-income households., as the inference is that they have a greater need. This inference is ridicolous, agree needs should be assessed in a different way, but at least it does help low income households to access childvcare if the family thinks it would benefit their child.

Wilddigestive I think your point that the idea that maternal guilt is unavoidable is really mainly a reactionary media creation is to a large extent true. (Although I'd add it's a result of our patricarchal society as a whole and the media is only a relfection of this.) However, I can't shake the nagging question of whether the maternal guilt I feel may be reasonable, that my child WOULD be better of spending more time with me or her dad, and that my guilt is not just a product of patriarchy. I..e. I am dreaming of a life where we both work less and spend more time with our children, because I have this idea it's the ideal life for children. However, I know for sure that my husband does not feel any of that sort of guilt for working, so I guess my answer is right there, though. I do know that he wishes he could work less and spend more time with our daughter. So I guess that we both wish that we did not live in a society that forces people to spend so much time away from their family working for someone else. But I feel guilty about it - he just feels annoyed about it.

[angstybaby]

i'm a better mum because I don't do it all the time. I would be unimaginative and short-tempered if I were a SAHM. Nursery are so good with them. But yes, I do feel shitty about it, especially when I manage to feel both terrible at my job and at parenting!

I always hang round outside the door of the nursery to see when the crying stops. pretty much immediately. My oldest had a phase of finding nursery hard, strangely not when he was little, but when he was 3. The others love it and love to go in. They go in till 13.30 4 days a week.

why don't you just hang on till your maternity leave starts and then reduce DD's hours a bit? I used to just go and collect them early, even if it meant paying for something we didn't use. By the time your leave is over, she'll be older and might cope better?

Good luck - i feel your pain!

[Londonmamabychance]

Andnowitsseven and Dozer I know one hours tv is normal at many childminders, but I guess I'm not normal and that's why I couldn't find a childminder I was happy with. In the nursery they never watch tv, I don't know if they do in other nurseries? I'm just against any TV at all for small children, realise that puts me in a complete minority, and I'd never judge someone else for what they do, but that's how I feel and something that's very important to me, so I just chose not to pick a childcare setting with TV. And driving kids is normal too, I am just very afraid of traffick accidents - holding my hands up to being completely paranoid and overprotective! - it's just because my mum worked with severly disabled children all her lives, many of whom were hurt in traffick accidents, and it instilled in me a paranoid fear about it. I don't think I have prejudices as I really WANTED to find a childminder, visited all five avlaibale in my area, but the mentioned issues I just couldn't deal with, but again, that's just because maybe some of my ideas about what's safe and how children should be brought up are not "normal" ; ) also, i'm sure there are brilliant CM's out there, my sis has her DD with a CM who's like another member of the family and if I lived near her, I'd definitely have opted for her! But then I was lucky to find a very, very good and small nursery instead.

I guess you could say it's sad if missing work is creating stress for the child, but as several people on here and elsewhere have testified to by mentioning their own mother's expereinces of depression, being a stay at home mum does not work for everyone, and it's for no one to judge if you do not thrive being at home.

[MrsJayy]

I think you are being a bit condescending to childminders i know lots of very professional CM but obviously you have to put your own feelings first but there is nothing wrong with a bit of Tv or going out in the car.

What about reducing your hours till she and any other start school so you find some balance you are getting yourself in knots about this

[motherinferior]

It wasn't just the missing work that made me unhappy. It was the doing full-time childcare.

I like my work. I'm good at it and it is, yes, one of the ways in which I define myself. I didn't want to swap that for the world of small children and being at home.

So shoot me. They've been fine.