pooing in pants

[ponygirl]

My dd is now 3.5. We didn't make any headway with toilet training until she was just 3, but then she seemed to get the hang of it pretty quickly. We've had the fairly usual run of accidents of both sorts, but lately we've had a bit of relapse with the wee. I've been taking this (fairly) in my stride ('It's just a phase, it's just a phase', but the last 5 or 6 days she's been pooing in her pants everyday, sometimes twice. She's not upset by it (but she never is by accidents) but she does come and tell me that is's happened. I've often found her in the bathroom, so she knows what she's meant to do. Today (pooed in pants this am), but this evening she pooed in the shower (yeurch!). I've tried to talk to her about it but she can't seem to tell me why she's doing it, although she knows it's meant to be in the toilet. I'm starting to wonder whether there's a physical reason for this. The consistency of the matter is perfectly normal, there doesn't seem to be any sort of tummy bug. I thought we had this bit of it cracked - what's going on?!

Any advice pathetically gratefully received!

Hi I can't give you a solution but can sympathise as I had exactly the same with my ds. It went on (on and off) for months until finally it just stopped. I didn't train him till nearly 3 and after 2-3 months thought he was fine but he had a relapse for about a month. He hasn't had an accident for about 4-5 mths now.

I think a lot of it was to do with stress at the time his dad was working away from home which really upset him. When he was back and ds was fine then he had to go away for a few days 2-3 times and it all started again. I fairly sure this was triggering his accidents.

Hi - have just been discussing similar in another thread (4 yr old still poos in pants!) To be fair he's only just 4 but it's really been stressing me out! There's no warning and he doesn't even try to come and tell me after he's done it. Was just reading in Penelope Leach that it's his way of asserting power over his parents and that our reacting negatively (as we have) will only reinforce it. Feel really bad and worried that it's all my fault for taking too much power away from him (I'm always nagging him about the loo) and telling him off after all the pooing. I can't even call them accidents anymore as it's the only way he chooses to poo. Am going to really try to back off and give him his own space and let him decide when to go to the loo etc.
Hope you find something that works for you. You are not alone!!

Thanks stripey and BooMama. Yes, BooMama, I had read your thread and it was helpful. I just got concerned about my dd this evening because the shower was a bit unusual, and I'm starting to wonder whether there could be a physical cause as we haven't had this problem for a while. Given what you and Stripey say, maybe I just need to relax a bit: I too am guilty of getting a bit cross wither her, because I know she can do it. God, how I hate toilet training.....Grrrr!

Any other thoughts? (Bumpety bump...)

a star chart maybe - it's worked for a variety of thing for us including waking in the night

Well, just to update, 'cos I know you're all desperate to know, we started having wet knickers too. I started to wonder whether she had an infection, so took a sample up to gp last week, and all clear. That evening, she had a stupendous diarhoea explosion (on our bedroom floor!). I was out (thank god) but dh says there was nothing she could have done about it, So obviously something hasn't been right with the poor little thing. Since then, no pooing in pants, but wet knickers 2 or 3 times a day. She knows exactly what's expected of her. I'm even back to chocolate bribery. But no improvements. I know I should be remaining calm with her, but I'm not succeeding very well. I'm not getting cross, but I do feel very frustrated by the mounting washing pile!

GP said to go back at the end of the week if no improvement and I'm seeing HV tomorrow. Any thoughts, anyone?

Ponygirl, no words of wisdom I'm afraid - I'm going through exactly the same thing myself so I'm waiting to see what advice you're given. My DS is just three and started nursery school 3 weeks ago. Since then, he just wees and sometimes poos in his pants. Interestingly enough, he doesn't do it at nursery, just home or when he's with me. I have been getting cross with him because it is intentional. I thought maybe he had an infection but over the weekends he manages to get back into the swing of toilets again. I have resorted to jelly baby bribery. Just now, I noticed that he'd weed (he doesn't tell me) so I switched cbeebies off. I asked him why he did it and he just said 'I neeeded to'. I know I am reacting wrongly but the softly softly approach doesn't seem to work either. HELP SOMEONE!

I don't have any words of wisdom I'm afraid but had exactly the same thing with dd1, suddenly pooing in her pants every day after being totally trained for eight months. I started off being very sympathetic, then tried star charts, then plain bribery and finally got cross which was totally the wrong thing to do but I'm only human and it's just HORRIBLE. On the surface, she was behaving completely normally but it later transpired that there was something concerning her (although she never said so) and as soon as it went away, so did her accidents, literally the same day. I think this is just the way some children react to big upsets, change or worries and all you can do is sit it out . No help at all but just wanted you to know that you're not alone!

Have reread oneofeach's post and again, dd1 never had any accidents at nursery, only with me. Grr!

I had the same sort of thing recently. dd must have been just over 3.5, and she became constipated, so was terrified of pooing because it hurt. Then when it was all soft again, she thought that if she just didnt' go to the loo it wouldn't happed but then it was too soft for her to hold in. I also got v angry with her. Tried all bribery, everything. I can't remember what happened, but I do remember that we were both really awful to her and MADE her sit on the loo until she had pooed at bathtime. Eventually I s'pose it worked as she started to realise it was OK (although for quite a while I had to hug her as it happened) and it became natural to her again.
I really do sympathise. Over a year of being potty trained and then wham. And as you say it is disgusting.

Oh thanks guys. I'm so glad I'm not alone, though I'm sorry you're all going/have been through it too. It is, truly, disgusting. Interestingly, we've had a good day. I've made extra special efforts to spend good quality time with her (ds1 at school, ds2 into bed and generally kept amused) and we've only had one v small wetting. Saw HV this pm and had an (unusually) useful conversation. We're thinking (hoping) that there has been a physical reason for most of soiling and the effect on her bowel apparently could have put pressure on her bladder, so maybe she couldn't help the sudden wetting, even though she didn't have an infection. And apparently some small children suffer from spasms in the bladder, which are v difficult for small children to control. I've got a chart to fill in for a couple of weeks to see if we can identify a pattern.

We'll see what happens I suppose. (Will not get cross, will not get cross...)

We saw hv last week and she was full of constructive advice - we were to offer him a nappy to poo in till he got more confident and then we could take him to the loo. However, we have no warning of when to offer the nappy! If I put him in one on the offchance he'll happily stay in it for ages without doing anything. Have been giving stickers for trying and going to the loo (even when we make him go) for wees.
Major setback this afternoon - as we were watching a video I thought he looked like he was concentrating a little too hard so offered him a nappy which he refused. 10 seconds later heard some grunting and he had pooed and wet his pants whilst telling me again that he didn't need a poo. Fine, took him to the loo, cleaned him up and explained calmly that there was no sticker. Left him pants free and went into the garden for 10 minutes. When I came back in he was lolling back on the sofa with another poo between his legs. I went pretty mad, asked him what he'd done and said it was disgusting... He of course burst out crying and I ended up taking him out to the garden centre to get his mind off it (after washing cushion and seat covers...)
Feel like I've set us right back again. Am so mad at myself now!!!
Am mulling on StickyNote's thought that there may be some underlying concern. He has a lot of issues with his sister (she's 17 months and they do not play together well). Other than that I can't think of anything else although he is quite a sensitive chap.

We're still pooing in pants - ds knows what to do, says he will, but still does the poo in his pants. He then 'admits' to it by saying "I don't need a wee, I don't need a poo..." which is often the cue for him having done one.

Don't know where to go from here really.