How can I love her again?

[crystalpony]

I have a daughter whose 4 - she's extremely bright and intelligent (as people never tire of telling me) and I of course appreciate that that's wonderful. The downside is that I have to debate every single thing with her and whilst that infuriates me, there are times when the debating spills into nastiness, where if we disagree or I want her to do something ie get dressed there will be kicking, shoving and insults from her - that I'm a stupid mother for example. Walking away doesn't help, she will follow me from room to room and refuses to let it drop.

This morning(two minutes after we had been having a lovely snuggle and everything rosy) everything I did was wrong from the way I put the toothbrush on her brush - she couldn't do it - to the bobbles in her hair, the cardigan she was wearing etc - all m my fault - she faffed around so much that we missed going to her drama group, causing her to scream at me even more - this caused me to flip out and I honestly felt that I couldn't stand to be around her for a minute longer and that I just didn't like her, let alone love her. She followed me around sobbing saying she was so sorry, blah blah but it's been done so many times before. I feel so angry that I am suffering this now, she is behaving like a teenager.

I have tried everything to address her behaviour, but nothing seems to sink in. I credit my husband for some of it as he was spoilt and revered by his parents and can be as result, obnoxious, facetious and condescending regardless of who he's addressing and he is doing the same to her (spoiling) and I can't stop it.

I didn't really ever crave children and I hate to say that I really resent that I am being almost abused in this way by her.

I know she's four and I need to be the bigger person.
I am not depressed and don't need medication.
I know I am not a bad mother, so am not looking for sympathy/empathy.

I just need some advice how to get through this bad patch and start enjoying having her again.

sometimes just acting like a good mother will work

even if you want to kill her

just pretend; act as well as you can, follow the advice for parents dealing with children behaving badly

remember you're the adult and you need to help her to learn to be a better person

then put her to bed and get the wine out. To be honest on really bad days sometimes I leave my bedroom lamp on and pop up there now and again to look at the serenity that awaits me when the little sod is under her fairy duvet

I'd say: no debating, you're the adult (easier said than done, I admit) so go through the list of non-negotiable things and what she'll get back in return if she cooperates

and do some silly, unpredictable childish things, life is very short

I really, really want her to be a better person. That's the thing - I don't want her growing up thinking it's ok to throw her weight about (because her dad does - not in an abusive way, just in a 'I'm it' kind of way) .

Of course, she's angelic at school and for everyone else, but it's just me pretty much that gets the brunt of it. It's all so pointless as well. The minute I said we were now too late for drama group she immediately got her coat on etc and was ready, whereas she faffed about for the previous half hour.

I worry that if I turned to wine, it might become a habit!!

It's hard not to take it to heart as well, but you're right about acting the part of the good serene mother - I will try harder not to slip out of character! Thanks

Bundle, I know you're right too, the trouble is I give her the list of non-negotiables and her dad almost immediately undermines it!! Grrrr!! The pair of them will drive me crackers!

he's the one you need to sort out, not your little girl. arse

My ds1 (now 5) is sometimes like this, argues about everything, accuses me of ruining everything/doing things wrong and I sometimes find myself tip-toeing around so as not to put him in a bad mood and then I realise this is completely wrong. He gets upset over the slightest thing sometimes.

I have found it helps to have some distance. When he is being like this I say I am going upstairs to tidy up or something and after a while, when he's calmed down he comes and says sorry, I'll be nice to you mummy.

I really think it's just a phase and as the adult I have come to realise that I have to set the example. Kids of this age are simply not in control of their reactions - that's what I keep telling myself.

just cc him in on the list.
and do him a list while you're at it...

There are some good books on this - How to talk so Kids will Listen and Listen so Kids Will Talk and Raising Happy Children spring to mind.

Has she started school recently? When dd1 started reception things got pretty tough for a while.

Crystalpony, is dh one of those men who thinks they only need to read a book to become an expert? If so get him to read the books and put the strategies in to work, so he thinks it is all his idea.

saadia - I hope it's a phase, the way she's behaving is so hormonal and teenagerish that my dread is that this is it until she hits twenty! And bundle, he knows he's an arse. He's a company director and is so used to everyone being sycophantic and agreeable to his every whim that he expects it at home, thus, it's rubbed off on her.

Sometimes I think the only way to give her a chance at not growing up a complete spoiled bitch is to leave him.

(Obviously I have my faults too, I think I am still psychologically fighting the fact that I'm a married mother and sometimes I'm wishing I could be flight and responsibility-free again!)

I feel a spa break coming on.......

Just want to add that I already feel more cheery just for sharing so thanks girls

nearlythree - yep, she started school in September, do you think that's contributed? She also an only child so has no concept of sharing attention with siblings I suppose.

Yes, my dh is 'instant expert!!'

Do have to echo Cappucino's advice. I have found that if I imagine I'm on stage playing a fantastic mother, or imagine cameras recording me, I'm less likely to snap/bicker/harumph. Remember that camera smile and also, when she's being trying, hold fast to the lovely snuggles. Don't think "but we were cuddling and now she won't get her coat on for me" but rather think "yes - she's being difficult now, but she can be lovely and I'm riding out this behaviour for now".
Also - you have to have a talk with your dh. Not necessarily to change him, but rather to have a ground rule that he doesn't show dissent when you're telling your dd to do something. He is undermining you, and that can't go on.
Good luck!

I do sympathise. My 4.5 y o dd is very articulate, confident, bright etc and very accompished in the arts of negotiating and debating! (Great qualities in a teen / adult - insufferable in a 4 y o!)

I try to explain things to her as much as poss, so that she feels like she's part of all the decision-making processes (ifswim). She so wants to understand everything, so as much as possible I do explain everything, like how skin repairs itself and the cycles of the moon, and without wishing to sound like a big-head I want to show dd that I am an intelligent, knowledgable person and that she can learn a lot from me. IMO the younger she realises that the more she can get from me, and the more respect she will have for me which will obviously help with discipline and everyday rubbing along together.

Also when we do creative crafty things together I always do whatever dd is doing (we both make necklaces together for example, rather than her doing it and me watching) and we comment on each others' work, make suggestions etc and those times are really bonding and help dd to respect that I am a creative person (sorry, this sounds unbelievably poncy! ) And when we go out to the park or whatever I'll join in and play with the dcs - I think that kind of thing really helps them to see you as a real person in your own right rather than
just their mum.

I'm just so aware that whether I like it or not I am a role model for her and therefore I'm trying my best, quite consciously at times, to be a good role model.

She blames me quite often for when things go wrong or she hurts herself etc - so today for eg I've been talking to her about the difference between telling a lie and making a mistake. (She said this morning, "Mummy, you told me a lie! You said there were no marbles under the sofa and I've found one!")

Sorry this was so long! I don't always get it right and there are times when I get so frustrated with dd constantly asking questions or wanting to turn every tiny decision into a debate. I am really grateful for having a girl who is so bright and switched on and so enthusiastic about life though.

The icing on the cake is her theological questions! She can turn a simple goodnight prayer into the stuff of 'A' level R.E.! Her best one yet - "Mummy, if Granny's body is still in the earth now that she's died, how is she going to give me a cuddle when I get to heaven?"

N3 hijack alert!

Go to the christian prayer thread - I've got something I want to say to you there!

Yes, now it's died down a bit, I obviously feel more level-headed and that she's so precious to me.

I think it's just when she switches from being so loving and fun when we're doing stuff together to so nasty in a few seconds it's hard to stomach.

I appreciate everything that's been said and I feel much more reassured that lots of people go through the same thing. I do want her to be a typical 4 year old (even the bad bits) and I suppose I have to keep telling myself that this will pass - oh and get the wine going as suggested! [grin}

Now it's calmer I feel a bit melodramatic about earlier but I think that's how it get you isn't it? (Wonder where she get's it from? Oops!)

Oh and my husband just got back from London and brought me a brew up so I s'pose he gets a point for that!

I think you and dh need to agree an approach to discipline, to apply it consistently and to back each other up. This will not only work better it will make everyone much happier too. Easier said than done of course but I think this is the real solution to the problem.

Her behaviour does sound abusive towards you at times (although not extraordinary for a 4 year old). She needs to know what is unacceptable - and therefore you need to be a role model - never use unacceptable behaviour yourself in response to her behaviour! Walking away is a withdrawal of your attention which is a good strategy. If it doesn't work because she follows you, don't give her attention, don't speak to her and don't make eye contact. Just say, "I will talk to you when you have stopped being rude and apologised for your behaviour." No discussion, no negotiation.

Sorry you are going through a difficult patch with her but it won't last long, it is just her trying out behaviours to see which ones work. Give her the right feedback and she will move on!

Would recommend Dr Tanya Byron's book Little Angels, gives great advice. She says reasoning/ debating with a child this age is a waste of time and they have to be shown by actions - like time out - when they behave badly. It also makes it less stressful for the parents!

Sorry you're having trouble with your dd. My cousin had similar bad times with hers at that age and she's grown out of it now. I have a 3 yr old dd who often drives me up the wall too. Sometimes she makes me so angry I feel like I want to destroy her. I seem to spend my days arguing, cajoling, bargaining, bribing, it's exhausting. Even her very even tempered father has started to lose it with her...
I agree with everyone elses advice and the book nearlythree mentions is good, just dipping into books like that from time to time can get you back on track and let you know you're not alone. It's so damn difficult being a parent!!!!!!!! And it hurts so much when you're trying your very best and seem to be getting such crap results. I've just had an idea. Maybe we shoud keep little diaries with our kids where we write up one nice thing from each day and get them to draw a picture to go with it. When times are bad we can look through it and also it could be used to reinforce the 'good' things the child does or the 'good' reactions she has had, by re-reading it with her.
At my dd's nursery the parents' asociation had a child pyschologist come and give a general talk, it really helped but you have to find someone who's good...and pay them...
Good luck