Is it ok to 'force' a toddler to do something eg get dressed?

[76burntbeans]

DS is 21 months and reasonably cooperative but obviously sometimes refuses nappy changes, getting dressed, getting in the pram and what have you. I found myself wheedling and negotiating with him but this takes ages and he gives me the run around and sometimes we we don't have time for it.

I'm trying the Janet Lansbury approach of 'would you like to do xyz or would you like mummy to do it for you?' Then gently but firmly getting hm dressed or whatever if he doesn't do it himself, but I feel like I'm saying ' do it right now or I will force you' as that's what it amounts to. I don't feel right about physically making him but on the other hand I don't think it's right to give him too much 'control' (if that's the right word) either. Basically I'm conflicted and curious if other people do it? If not, how do you get stuff done? I'm sure they never physically make him do anything at nursery, so it must be possible. I just dont know how.

We have a wilful 3 year old and we start with negotiating but sometimes have to force. He is a fast little mite and as he gets bigger hard to force but as long as you don't hurt them in the process gentle force is fine in my opinion.
However I do remember one spectacular Saturday afternoon where it took dp and I 2 hours to get him dressed to leave the house - he was taking his clothes back off as we got them on etc kicking etc. Also one day in the park he was refusing to come home and as I picked him up to carry him he kicked my contact lens out I am very short sighted so dp had to be called to get us as I was too worried about blindly crossing roads holding ds
I found it very distressing. With going out pretending I am going without him sometime works too... He has no sense of timing so we need to leave now to go swimming is just not understood. Also bribery and distraction...

If you... then we can isn't as good as when you...then we can, BTW. If implies an option whereas when doesn't :) But at not quite two, it might not make that much difference. Remember he is still very little. A lot of negotiation etc will go over his head and confuse him. I think that negotiation and choice giving is great, BTW, but when it's appropriate - I'm not sure that it often is for a 21 month old. They are still babies. They do seem grown up when it's your first.

Absolute key is communicating on their level. So use things that they understand. Humour and playing is GREAT. Blanket rules "We need clothes on to go outside" GREAT. "Five minutes until we..." not so good. They don't understand five, they don't understand minutes. "After Peppa pig, we will" GREAT. "After three more slides, it's time to go home" (and then counting each slide, ooooone, twoooooo, threeeeee!) is great. Simplify everything into as few words as possible if you're giving information or instruction. It's good to use more words when you're just waffling (increases vocabulary) but when you actually want them to understand something, think dog! "Come, Fido, Sit" is easy to understand and clear whereas "Come here lovely and sit down next to me, there's a good girl" is more likely to get ignored because it's harder to differentiate. Toddlers are more able to understand instructions than dogs, of course, but the idea of simplifying everything down to the minimum words is really helpful.

I once didn't enforce a morning nappy change, she was totally not up for it and I didn't want to fight her to strip her pants of! So I left it and kept asking through the day, she hadn't done poo but the nappy was getting larger and larger and quite wiffy. I really thought at some point she would see the benefit in letting me change her pants for her own comfort.
Safe to say she's 2, so of course she didn't!
By the time her Dad came in he told her she smelt like a urinal and swiftly changed them.
I felt like such an inadequate tit
Mind you, she's never argued it since!
I leave lots of time now to allow her to get herself dressed, and also for getting in the car. She knows she has to be safely strapped in before we go anywhere but it still takes a while.

also i would say that the downside of negotiating too much at any age (I've done this with dd1) is that if you offer her x, she'll always push for x +1, +2 etc. I did it to avoid tantrums between 2-4 but it's backfired a bit because her instinct now is always to hold out for the best offer she can extract (she's lovely though, and may be an asset to the FO negotiators one day :)

I would just force it, things like getting dressed, getting in pushchair/car etc are non negotiable in my house, if I've asked her to do something it happens. If my toddler kicks off she is put in her cot, she says sorry mummy (as she knows she's there because she's been naughty) and then comes out has a kiss and does whatever I've asked her to do calmly. Don't pander to them or you'll have lots of behaviour to sort out later!

I know someone who gives her pre schooler pretty much free rein of his life. This seems to include the choice to get dressed or not which sounds fine, then this extends to the freedom to explore his world by bashing his baby sibling over the head, poke people's cats, drop food on the floor, he is an absolute nightmare. And will be home edded as he has chosen not to go to school. Therefore his mum won't be going to work - she 'can't' as she needs to home ed the children because that's what PFB has decided.

Fuck that for a game of soldiers.

I do think children need adults to tell them what to do from time to time.

I found when mine were small it didn't help to say eg 'Don't stand near the fire' as all they really latched onto was the idea of standing by the fire. But if I phrased it as a positive action 'come away from the fire' then they did what I wanted more easily.

you are doing a great job. Enforcing basic human behaviour is part of our job as parents. It starts now, but you will be doing it for years

They don't know the 'rules' so we have to guide them. We need to get dressed to go outside. You can't take things off the shelf in supermarket. You have to hold Mummy's hand crossing the road. etc etc

Toddlers don't do negotiation, simple choices sometimes, but some things are non negotiable.

Think of it this way. if he was dc2, and you had to get dc1 to school for a certain time, you would HAVE to get him dressed, and strapped into car/buggy and out of the door whether you/he liked it or not!

Personally I go for manipulation and sometimes bribery as others described above, then if that doesn't work and it's essential then yes, forcing (such as the time DS age 6 had a massive tantrum in the middle of London in commuter time and had to be carried against his wishes, I knew nothing else would work).

I would give the option of either dc dressing himself by x amount of minutes/time or you helping him. Otherwise, you will struggle to be on time everytime you leave the house.

I do think you have to force toddlers to do some things.

Yes, he needs clothes on. Personally at this age, I would just dress him myself quickly to avoid any sort of battle.

Also, if he wished to run next to a busy road not holding on to you, you'd pick him up or hold onto him using force. So another eg of where you'd need to "force" him to do something.

If you needed to go out in the car and he refused to walk to the car, you'd pick him up and strap him into his car seat - again "force".

He does need to realise that you are the boss and that there are certain things that are not optional, particularly concerning safety.

Absolutely. It's obviously better if you can distract, make it a game etc but sometimes that doesn't work or takes too long.

YY to what BertieBotts says about very simple language (love "think dog" ) and what G1ve says about saying what you Do want them to do rather than "Don't..."