I think l've found a solution to potty training!

[aftizap]

(If you don't want to read the history scroll down to the solution 2nd paragraph from the end!)

Hi all,

Honestly l was losing hope. I couldn't understand why my daughter (aged 3) wouldn't go on the loo.

Jemma had got into a private nursery, we were all so excited for her that working the extra hours didn't bother me. We were on the count down for her to start, however one of the conditions was that she had to be completely dry. 'It's alright we've 6 weeks to go, we'll do it.' Well that 6 weeks whizzed by and no luck. She had to wear a pull up to school. The school was so horrible about it, they didn't protect her dignity at all and advertised it to other children who started calling her baby! It was awful. During that week Jemma was diagnosed with a distended bowel which explained alot. She had been constipated since birth and only felt comfortable going to the loo in the standing position. The Dr had prescribed 6 x 5ml of Lactulose, 1 x 5ml of Senna and a constant flow of anti-biotics. I was so worried about given my little girl this cocktail of drugs every day. I was prepared to try anything to make Jem's better though. It made us quite irrational with poor little Jems. If she went in her nappy we would get quite angry and of course it made the situation worse! She was only at school for 5 afternoons because they suspended her on the grounds that they couldn't cope with her medical condition. The only reasonable adjustment that we asked for was for Jemma to wear a pull up. If anything happened we lived directly opposite the school and could be there in less than 30 seconds! They said no and we left. I was so appalled. I'm still fighting for a refund.

Jemma is now in a state school that is absolutely wonderful. Jemma looks forward to going to nursery and we have relaxed about the whole potty thing. If she went in her nappy there were no longer raised voices, l just said, 'don't worry, let's get cleaned up. Where should we go if we need to do a wee?' 'The loo Mummy' 'Let's try next time.'

I had been given a magazine from the new school on 'Yellow Moon' as l was flicking through it l noticed a mis match of small toys, some like what you get out of cheap crackers up to little drawing books, stickers etc... Then l came up with the idea.... A 'Pooh box' I ordered the box of toys. I got an empty Kinder Egg box (it held 3 eggs)and tore the lid off. I then stuck it upright on the bathroom wall. I took a toy out of the selection box and Jemma got quite excited. I explained that this was to go in the pooh box and once she had gone to the loo, it was all hers. She happily carried it into the bathroom, l lifted her up and she put it in the pooh box. We made up little stories about it and she asked lots of questions however she got the gist quite quickly... for the next day she went on the loo! I cried l was so happy. Jemma was thrilled to get her toy. I leapt off to get another toy and Jemma put it in the pooh box. 'I get that when l go to the loo???' she asks excitedly. I am so happy to say that Jemma is out of nappies now. Okay we still have the odd accident however we're along way away from where we were.

I really, really hope that this can help other Mums. I completely understand the frustration and helplessness that is felt with such external pressures to conform. Strangely it all happened when we relaxed about it!

Hi,
I'm glad you finally 'cracked it' with your little girl.

My daughter is just 4 and still won't poo on the potty or toilet at all. We haven't had even one success (apart from a drip or two of liquid).

She is my third and I had similar problems with her brother and sister.

I remember I succeeded in getting her brother to go with bribery, using Kinder Surprise eggs. It worked, but then he continued soiling his pants for years afterwards (long after he was 9). He has always had a night-time nappy, and at 4 and 5 was doing it in his nappy. At 4, he waited for his nappy and then did it. At 5, he was doing it in his sleep.

I can't remember much about my older daughter, she was still difficult and not trained by 3 1/2 and she still messes her knickers now, at 9. The G.P. said, at 3 1/2, not to worry. The HV said, at 5, not to say anything, just to clean her and change her. But, they both were doing well over 80% in the potty/toilet.
This one won't even do it in her nappy now. I think I've pressured her too much. She just doesn't want to go at all, and goes in her sleep. If she's awake she will hold onto it.

All three of them have been the same, but she's been the worst one for not going at all. Maybe it's because I cannot bribe her with anything. I've tried and she doesn't want anything enough to be worth the 'trauma' of going.

It doesn't help that they were all very late talking, too, and never showed any of the signs that they say to look out for that they are ready for training. If I followed that advice, I think they'd all be in nappies until they were 10!

I really don't know what the solution is, from all I've read it just seems that there isn't one solution, just take the pressure off and they'll do it eventually. I do think finding a reward works, but you need to find something that the child wants enough.

I certainly wish that I hadn't put so much pressure on her, and had encouraged her to do it in her nappy, as that is better than trying to hold onto it forever. I've read to sit them on the potty with the nappy on, but by the time I'd read that she was no longer doing it in her nappy awake! so I can't try that.

She is starting Kindergarten in January, I've already put it off from September because they're supposed to be out of nappies. Well, she is, but I can't guarantee she'll keep her knickers clean.

The strange thing with mine is that none of them ever were constipated or had trouble going until I tried to potty-train them, then the problems started and I ended up having to use lactulose with both the elder children, because they became constipated from not going. I read about this distended bowel problem. Apparently, if you don't go when you feel the need, then it builds up to the point where they no longer do feel the urge at all, and it's imperative that they take lactulose or similar to help them go. My older daughter has only recently stopped taking it. She now manages to go regularly and without too much problem, but still soils her knickers regularly. Why? Have I just trained all of them wrong? Or is it genetic?

My son was diagnosed with a mild autistic spectrum disorder, so we put it, and the late talking, down to that, but now that both girls have done exactly the same (this one even more extreme) I'm thinking it's nothing to do with it. I think personality plays a big part. This one certainly doesn't seem to have any desire to 'please' me. The other two didn't, either, but this one even more so.

I haven't yet read all the threads/posts on this topic, I think I'll have to do a bit more to see if anyone else has any ideas.

kayeandnat, have you heard of this codition?

condition

just looked at jabberwocky's link and spina bifida can be genetic (it'sin my family) so tethered cord could explain all 3 of your kids having thesame problem.

Yes, I was thinking along similar lines.

You know it such a relief to hear others facing the same issues. Jemma's first school made me feel that it was the first time they've ever had such a social outcast!

I applied for her to go to this school when she was 6 months old. When the time came for interviews they asked to interview Jemma on her own. I thought it must be quite amusing to interview 2 year olds! Whilst waiting outside with the other Mum's - appeared to be all married to wealthy men, l was the only single working Mum there - when they discovered this they stopped talking to me really - l found out that there were 86 applicants for only 11 spaces. Of course l think Jem is wonderful, however at those odds l didn't think we stood a chance.

I remember getting the letter from the school. It was like getting your exam results! I remember being overjoyed at her getting in! We had a little party. Made a day of it - bought her little uniform and accessories. Jem paraded round the house feeling very proud in her new outfit. I took lots of photos and blasted them round the world to family and friends like any proud Mother.

Her first day - l had a short conversation with her teacher and tried to explain the situation and that 'just in case' she would wear a pull up. She didn't look happy however Jemma went in, all smiles. I picked her up and the teacher said that she'd had an accident. It was that night that the pooh box idea was borne. We had a success and l was overjoyed. The following day as l waiting for the front door to open, l met another parent. When discovering my daughters name she said in a rather nasty tone 'l've heard all about her'. l was phoned from the school later on, Jemma had poohed on the floor and could l come over immediately. (I thought poohed on the floor - oh no!) I rushed over there (l live opposite, so less than a minute) to find that Jemma had tried to go to the loo however it had got stuck, she stood up to try and wipe and it had dropped to the floor, to make it worse she then trod in it and walked around the bathroom! A classroom assistant glared at me while mopping up. I did my best to clear up. Her teacher ushered us out the front door. Jem had only been at school for about 45 minutes. That was a long walk. I tried to cheer Jemma up and asked what she had done in class, she said 'everyone calls me 'baby'. 'Why' l asked. 'Because l use a nappy'. Why weren't the teachers trying to protect Jemma's dignity?

As l dropped Jemma off to school a few days later a 'Senior' teacher from the Secondary School was waiting for me. In front of other parents she asked to speak to me. In a nutshell she said that Jemma should not come back until this problem was resolved. I tried to explain that it was a medical condition and could take a few years! However l did try to be positive and said that we had had a break through the follwing night and that l hoped things would be better now. Her reply was if there were any other accidents she could not stay. I kissed Jemma and went home. 30 minutes later a phone call from a smug teacher to say Jemma had had an accident. I ran to the school. The teacher smiled almost laughed as we left! No sooner had the door shut than l just sat on the front steps and held Jemma in my arms. I felt like crying however just tried to comfort Jemma.

A month later and Jemma still wasn't 'ready'. The whole time l'm spending £400 per month for her school and after classes. ($800) That was for 2 hours, 5 days a week of finger painting! Sorry, l'm starting to get angry now! We were out in the park one afternoon and we met another Mum whose son had exactly the same problem. We told her about our school and she couldn't believe it. Her son was a year older than Jemma. She told us about what a great nursery her son went to. I made enquiries and spoke to the Headmistress. After she heard what we had been through she offered Jemma a place immediately. Jemma could start straight after the holidays! Her new school is wonderful! Jemma no longer dreads going to school, she looks forward to it! They protect her dignity and have researched 'distended bowels' and how they can support her further! I couldn't have asked for more and to make it even better as it's a state school it's free! They go to such an effort - they have decorated the school for Christmas to look like a grotto, it's wonderful. I hope the children know how lucky they are!

We went to hospital again today. I don't want Jem to be on anti-biotics all the time however there is still blood and white cells in her urine and she now needs a DRSA? scan, where they inject a dye to see if there is any scarring on her kidneys. I think l need to back track here to explain. When a child has a distended bowel, the build up of stools puts pressure on the uretha and bladder which causes infections. In Jem's case it went to her Kidney's. Every few weeks she would get an incredible temperature and be very ill. Constant trips to Yorkhill Childrens Hospital however they are still no further forward. Sorry back to the distended bowel... when there is a large hard stool that can't be passed, the new soft / liquid pooh goes around the side and comes out into their pants without them even knowing it. That is why my daughter was expelled from school in the end. .

I know that every child is unique however l have found the pooh box to have worked. Jemma liked reward charts however lost interest when there were 10 to collect. Now she knows she gets a little reward straight away and she really tries. Give it a go. I'll keep my fingers crossed for you, (though l know it's a lot easier to please a 3 year old than an older child! Maybe make-up or something?)

aah aftizap I really feel for you and poor little Jemma after hearing your story. And how terrible that the teachers and other staff at her first school didn't seem to know the first thing about treating children kindly. I'm glad that you have found a good school for her now.

aftizap, I'm so sad for you and your little girl at the way she was treated at that first school. I was crying as I read what you went through. How heartless could they be? It's hard enough going through problems like this without being treated so badly too. From the sound of it she's better off where she is, you're better off too if the mums are so standoffish and nasty.

My elder daughter was at a nursery before she started school. Only part-time, but towards the end she didn't want to go. She had no explanation, as she couldn't really talk other than to say she didn't want to go. I had no problem with them, but when she started Kindergarten at 4 she loved it and used to run to school, couldn't wait to get there. It's great when they are happy, it's more important than getting a 'good' education, I think.

I think that both my two older children had distended bowel, but not to the extent of yours, at least they never suffered from bladder infections, thank goodness. But, they did both do enormous poos sometimes, I wondered how such a small child could produce something so big.
I don't know if it is ever totally cured, as my son is nearly 18 and he still blocks the toilet if we go on holiday to the US (which we do regularly). We tell him to go in the public toilets, so as not to block the one in our house/hotel room. I know their father often leaves a huge one (by mistake, not realising it hasn't flushed away), so maybe there's a genetic component to it, too. I'm the opposite, never have trouble going, especially since giving birth.

Sorry to be so graphic, but I'm struggling to understand why this happens. It's understandable if your child is constipated but mine never were until they started holding it in. Why hold it in the first place? Until you can get inside a toddler's head, I don't know if anyone knows. Or maybe there are many different reasons.

I have since my previous post read lots of others on this subject, and realise that it is very common, it's just that I've never yet met anyone else with the same problem. Well, I did know one mum who had this problem, but she didn't tell me how she solved it or when, and her child was much younger than mine, I think she'd solved it by the time he was 4.

It helps just knowing you're not alone, though, doesn't it? Best of luck

Jabberwocky, thanks for that link. It's very interesting. I'd not heard of it before. I don't think it would apply to my children as they don't have any of the other symptoms, but it's definitely worth bearing in mind and to be on the lookout for the other symptoms. I wonder whether it would show up on an antenatal test for spina bifida?