Awful, awful, impossible toddler. Is this normal? Help

[JamesBob]

This is my third child which I'm ashamed to admit, as I'm in real difficulties with him and don't know if his behaviour is normal or not.

I think I recall ds1 being the same to an extent but it is truly appalling at the moment.

He is SO determined to do what he wants, and will scream and roar when I have to say no (for example lying down in the road, or wanting to unlock the front door himself and someone's waiting outside, and he won't let me do it, though he takes a long time)

It is embarrassing as we need to do certain things like getting in the car to go to school and he just refuses point blank. He will writhe and scream and hit me and so on. People are staring

I try and stay calm, which I normally manage (though not always, but usually I do) and I'm normally a responsive parent, as in co sleeping, listening to him, feeding on demand, sort of thing. I tend to shout at the older ones sometimes but make allowances for tinies

Anyway it has been particularly terrible for about two weeks now and finally my mother has said she can't cope with him (she might take him out once or maybe twice a week for an hour or two). She says it's too dangerous and she thinks there is something wrong with him though she has difficulty being anything but gentle, or when it makes her cross, or she has to be firm. She doesn't want him to dislike her.

I am dreading every day with him. Especially nything involving going out on foot or in the car.

He is 2y 9m.

My Mum has upset me by saying she thinks he isn't normal. Can anyone smpathise or reassure me at all? I think it is perhaps a testosterone surge or something. He seems genuinely upset and miserable when his plans are denied. Like it's a physical pain to him?

I don't know. Just after some thoughts I suppose. Thanks if you got this far.

Have you tried using empathy when he has a melt down? Or distracting before he kicks off.

Thank you very much. I love the idea of a forest nursery and he would too, I think.
I think I'm hesitating about asking for help on two levels. One, I don't have a proper list of concerns. The only thing is his behaviour which appears very angry and upset sometimes; I don't have concerns about his social skills, his hearing, his physical wellbeing or anything else. He is too young perhaps to classify this behaviour as more than tantrums that many 2yos have?

Secondly I am scared of him being diagnosed with something before he has had a chance to grow out of it. I don't want to medicate a child this small, and I don't want to label him either. I am afraid someone will jump to conclusions because of the way he acts now, without waiting to see if it passes.

Sorry if that sounds a bit pathetic. I am afraid of some of the labels, in a sense I suspect that having some of them at his age will mean his teachers treat him with less care than they would another child, because they are prejudiced against a child with a behavioural disorder.

Not sure if this is making sense.

My middle child was like this but is not ASD. Totally different child now as a 9 year old. Very emotionally sensitive, aware of his environment, huge sense of fairness, very thoughtful, kind, creative, would make a great vet

Mchat is just a screening tool, it's fairly blunt and not great at picking up DC who are very bright and near the edge of the spectrum. It's not diagnostic.

Yes empathy can work, eventually but it doesn't get us to school - the other day when he was begging me to carry him and not put him in the car, I held him tightly and walked around the car for a few minutes while he hiccupped and sobbed, and he held really tight, and he calmed down and then I put him in but he started to protest again - then ds2 distracted him with something and he was fine within about a minute.

He doesn't seem to know what is upsetting him. We can't not use the car though, if it's that.

Distraction can work well but I'm not always able to do it in time.

This sounds like it could be sensory processing disorder, we saw an occupational therapist about this.

Our DD cried a LOT when she was born, and now can't stand loud noises (just a few of the symptoms).

Might be worth getting a medical opinion to put your mind at rest?

It doesn't sound pathetic at all! However, if they are required, labels can mean more, not less care and consideration at school.

The behaviour is part of his social skills iykwim, so I do see that as a potential red flag - medication tho, no one is suggesting that at this point surely? With our teen, several school teachers told us he should be on Ritalin, his consultants said he could have it if we wanted it, we declined (from what we read, little or no benefit to the child), and it was never pushed at us as a solution by the Doctors.

But he may be absolutely fine... Worth looking into tho', I think :)

I see what you're saying. And I'm glad you were able to refuse the Ritalin, the idea of it makes me quite scared.

I am happy to go for a Dx with my 8yo as I think we would benefit from it but have no experience of how schools deal with children in say YR or Y1 with a dx, and I expect it is variable as with everything - maybe it would be a good thing to be armed with a diagnosis at that stage! And I understand it can take a while.

SPD sounds like a possibility too, thank you for this, I will see what the GP says perhaps. Did you see an OT as a first referral situation or were you referred onto them from somewhere else?

My DS (now 10) was like this as a toddler. He was diagnosed with Asperger's Syndrome at 5 yrs old, but we are now looking at re-diagnosis of PDA.

I'm not for a moment diagnosing your child online (!), but this age - coming up to 3 yrs old - was when I started to notice that other toddlers were developing differently to DS socially. He just couldn't accept any boundaries, rules, being told 'No', and was completely determined to do what he wanted at all times. he was my first chid, so I wrote it off as 'terrible twos/threes' for a while, but by the time he started nursery at 3 yrs old, it was becoming obvious there was something else going on.

He didn't have any developmental delays, btw. Early walker and talker etc. But he was also a very high-needs baby.

I would definitely go to your GP and ask for a referral to a paediatrician. You have got nothing to lose.

Big hugs to you, btw. I know how exhausting and isolating it can be.

I should also add that my DS has a secondary diagnosis of Sensory Processing Disorder.

Yep he sounds very similar to my DD as a toddler, she's now diagnosed with ASD (aspergers), SPD and dyspraxia.

She was just so so angry, her tantrums were off the scale from around 15 months onwards and she couldn't be consoled, bribed, distracted etc. All the normal tricks and giving them choices didn't work.

Now I understand a lot of it was due to sensory stuff - shops particularly were a trigger for her. Also changes in routine or unexpected things happening. But most to do with not being in control. She's still very controlling now, and will lose her temper if she feels she isn't it control.

She would have passed the M-CHAT aged 2 and she aced her 2 year check - the HV actually wrote "lovely sociable child" in her red book because she didn't stop talking!

evidencebasedparent.blogspot.co.uk/2014/07/the-myth-of-toddler-testosterone-surge.html

This is interesting re the Testosterone theories.

Thank you very much and yes the link seems to rule out the testosterone thing, sadly!

I really appreciate your sharing what your own children were like at this age and how things developed.

Today he was pretty good and happy enough for the morning, and then we tried to go out at lunchtime and it was pandemonium.

First he ran down to open the front door and we had a struggle over that as he wasn't even wearing a nappy. (perhaps if I am careful not to say 'going out' he won't get the message till he is dressed but even so, he still won't get dressed easily)

It took five minutes to bribe him to let me put on his nappy. He then got very upset because I unbolted the door so he could open it himself, and demanded I put the bolt back on, which is daft because he can't reach it.
Finally got outside, him in t shirt and nappy, and I put him down because he insisted, and he kept pushing me back towards the house saying 'you go this way' and I said we have to go to the car (which was up the road) and he sobbed and cried about that. Eventually after much reasoning and failing to get anywhere I picked him up and carried him to the car, in about 3 phases, punctuateed by more arguing with him about which direction we were going in.

He screamed blue murder all the way. Then ds1 managed to distract him by offering his mobile phone to play with. got ds3 into his car seat peacefully, thanks to this, and he fell asleep within 5 minutes of leaving.

We were all exhausted and God knows what the neighbours thought was going on. I didn't look, or make eye contact with anyone.

He was nice when he woke up and even managed a walk round a supermarket, relatively peacefully.

Now he seems to be alright again. Just normal, fidgetty, climbing on me awkwardly while trying to have BF, annoying but not hair raising.

Sorry, it helps to write down what happens, for my own reference really as it is hard to explain in general terms.

Seriously, no one is going to offer to medicate him at 2.
I would try him at nursery or forest school. Staff are used to tricky 2 year olds, really they are, (I work in a preschool)

You may find he behaves quite differently there, lots of children do.
Also, of course, you get a break. And the staff, or anyway the head, will be well qualified to advise you further, once they've got to know him.

Op, I live overseas so it's all private, we had to cough up for the OT as it wasn't covered by insurance....

Well I'm no expert, but this sounds so much like a stage my dd went through. It turned out that she was upset because her father had been visiting and left without saying goodbye (some good detection work on the part of my MIL). But it was three weeks of hell. Another neighbour's dgd went through this just before starting pre-school. And I have noticed this with other toddlers as a reaction to something that is stressing them.

I know this is a reeeally old thread but would love to know what came of it as it sounds like my DS (21 mo)