Learning to read for multi-lingual child

[pena]

Hi Questions here to parents with multi-lingual children.

Which approaches did you take to introduce reading skills to your multi-lingual DC? Did you start with one language exclusively and progress to the other languages later, or did you do both/all simultaneously? and at which age did you start? which language did you choose to focus on supporting them - the school one vs the 2nd or 3rd? how do you minimise the confusion and keep their motivation?

Sorry so many questions, but DS is 5 yrs old and showing an interest in reading - I'm struggling as to the best way to help him. He goes to a French school and speaks French to DH and learns Mandarin with me. English we've kind of left to languish so he speaks as well as one can from watching Power Rangers.

Many thanks for sharing your experiences.

I have to smile at myself sometimes as I'm told so often how wonderful it is to have bilingual children and I hear myself saying, yes, but there are difficulties too... and realise I'm obsessing again. It all seems so critical right now because of the school and general learning level the children are at. I hope when they're 15 or so it'll be easier

Re-reading some of the posts here, it reminds me that all children do learn differently, that some'll pick things up faster or struggle longer with certain things. What comes across in stuff I've read is to be consistent and not force the child to learn.

Sometimes you can take other interests as a good "hook", my DD in the midst of her "can't speak won't speak German" phase, was entranced by a Lauras Stern DVD and a Finding Nemo cassette in German and delighted if puzzled by Mummy saying, "Yes of course you can watch it/listen to it again... and again..." I can't claim it was a magical key but it made the German side just as fun as the English. I wonder if we were in England, would my DSs love all things German because they'd associate English with school, early morning starts, homework and often grumpy teachers

Y1 & Y2 were (here in RP) very structured, spoon-fed, fill-in-the-gap type German exercises (and the sodding dictations and it was only in Y3 that the dc start to write freely. At our parents' meeting at the start of Y3 one mum asked how her DS was expected to write an essay when he couldn't distinguish between "in" (preposition) and "ihn" (dative er). The teacher chirruped, "Oh, that's fine, we haven't taught them the grammar yet and they don't lose marks for Rechtschreibung yet" Maybe teach that first?

SSShake, we're moving away from the gymnasium (figuratively) as we know that DS1 couldn't cope with the pressure. We're in the middle of tests to see if he has dyslexia. What he does have is a concentration problem and till we figured out it wasn't a case of "pull your socks up" he had a miserable year I'll spare you my diatribe about the ludicrous system of deciding at the age of 9 if a child will be capable of university at 18 ... and just say we're more concerned about his plummeting self-esteem and what's best for him now as well as long-term.

finknottle, that's so funny, you say "it was only in Y3 that the dc start to write freely".

I went through the German school system myself and found myself ranting just yesterday how my (still) 5-year-old ds2 in Y1 of the English state school system is supposed to write a summaries about various fairy tales when he can just about write words like fat cat sat on mat. Maybe it's his German genes, I don't know, all the other children in his class seem to write happily away while he complains that he doesn't know how to spell 'thorny hedge' or even 'cinderella', 'beanstalk' and 'princess' and 'married' so he just won't. They're not even supposed to get the spellings remotely right, the teacher is happy as long as the first and maybe the last letter of the word is correct, but he doesn't want to know. He wants me (or the teacher, who dosn't) write the words so he can copy them (as not to make any mistakes).

Btw, I hadn't been aware that the English version differs so much from the German version of some fairy tales.

Will give ds2 a very thick Fairy tale book in English for his birthday, lol, even though this will mean I read again in English to him not in German, which should really be my priority.

I had always assumed that Cinderella is like Aschenputtel and was very surprised when ds started talking about some pumpkin and coach. As I'd so far only read the German version (Aschenputtel) to him he seems to have been very confused when Cinderella was read at school.

Something else: Does anyone else find that their children have problems at school where another language is spoken at home with regards to vocabulary? I feel they often lack basic vocab in English - I sometimes think they should know the English word but often they don't so they really seem a bit limited in their english expressions. With ds2 lack of confidence in English is also a major problem.

So I find myself reading in English to them as well as German (although I'd like to keep the home environment as German as possible as they still make loads of grammatical errors in German and particularly ds1 mixes the languages a lot). Ds1 reads fluently in English now (at least Horrid Henry type books) and can now also read German, but if he doesn't know a word he doesn't bother to find out its meaning.

On the other hand, even I learned lots of those English words I think they'll never learn, and I was brought up with only one language and only learned English at school. So maybe like finknottle, I am obsessing...

Personally I find it a constant battle to keep the balance. I read to dd in English and in German. If I didn't read to her in German, I don't think her vocabulary would be anywhere near age-appropriate. So although I would rather not do it (I do think if possible they should hear a native speaker read), we generally read in both English and German every day.

Never read the German Aschenputtel come to think about it. So what is she doing then if she isn't heading off to the ball in her golden carriage? She doesn't have to be back by midnight for fear of the carriage turning into a pumpkin etc. I take it, so is that not part of the story then? She does have two ugly sisters and a fairy godmother I suppose...

Fink, wonder why your son has developped a concentration problem. I'm assuming it wasn't noticable in Y1 and Y2. What do you think lies behind it? Is he perhaps bored in class?

At our school, they change teachers after Y2 which is a shame. Our teacher is so exactly what I would have wished for dd. Who knows what the next teacher will be like? Is that the case in your ds' school? Perhaps it is a problem with the new teacher.

SSShakeTheChi, there is no fairy godmother, no pumpkin and there are no lizards and there is no coach in the German Aschenputtel. The birds help her, first the two white doves help her sort the lentils and it's the bird in the tree above her mother's grave who gives her a dress in gold and silver. She has to be back at midnight (and is). The part with the shoe is far mor drastic in the German version. The ugly sisters (they're called stepsisters, not ugly sisters in German, although I'm aware that the 'ugly' in the English version is meant in the way that the word is not (only?) meant as 'not beautiful' but rather 'mean', 'unkind' etc. - but do the children realize this? In German they're referred to as 'böse'. In the German tale they are so desperate they cut of bits of their feet and there's blood when they ride with the prince away. It never botherd me as a child and I never asked any questions (ds2 does though...) whereas now I'm pretty faint hearted, lol.
It's the bird again who tells the prince he's got the wrong princess as there is blood in the shoe so he brings the wrong ones back and then realises that the shoe fits Aschenputtel.

The more I think about it, the more differences between the stories I find. Of course there are always different versions even in the same language, they're looking at different versions of fairy tales at ds2s school at the moment, but they're normally not as major as in the Cinderella/Aschenputtel example.

I also have to re-read Cinderella as it's not quite in my system yet. My son finally got his treasury of fairy tales (in English) today! Looks interesting, means more reading in English to him for me. Ideally it should be done by a native speaker, I agree, but my dh's mother tongue is also English.

Definitely worth reading versions in different languages if you can.

Wow that's so completely different, isn't it?

At Christmastime there was a display of sort of moving puppets here with scenes from different fairy stories and I didn't understand why dd was insisting that one was Cinderella sorting the lentils. Sorting the what?! Thanks for enlightening me! Some of them I'd never heard of like Frau Hölle but dd seemed to know all about it. We do have a German book of standard fairy stories but Cinderella isn't in it (maybe not so popular in Germany?).

The song : "Some day my prince will come" is drifting through my mind now..

I agree some of these classic fairy stories are so creepy or bloodthirsty (Jack and the Beanstalk etc). You can imagine dc getting nightmares from them, can't you? We have one story which I didn't know of in English called Eselshaut where the king wants to marry his own daughter after the mother dies. This is one of dd's favourites! I always feel a bit odd reading this one.

I think the German versions are the (or nearer the?) original Grimm versions and we have the sanitized, Disney-fied versions. Cinderella seems to be the most different. Ds2 had fairytales as a theme before Christmas and asked for my help sorting out a picture puzzle. The wolf and goats were easy enough but I got pitying looks from him as I had no idea about the birds and lentils

They are more bloodthirsty, aren't they? MIL gave ds1 a Max und Moritz (und Struwelpeter?) book with a chopped off hand dripping with blood on the cover. He was 4

OMG poor little lad! Sounds like his teacher is in the wrong profession, totally. He could be really hurt by those kind of comments. Hopefully she isn't saying them in his hearing. Also where do they get off shrieking down the phone at you!

Boy oh boy. Whereabouts are you? Are you in a big town? Sounds like ds could do with a more caring school (and you too). Are there any other options there?
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Oh yes, Max and Moritz, awful. The neighbour gave dd that for Christmas when she was 5. I read it to her without checking it first and was shocked. Dd said, mummy this is horrible, do we have to read it? I threw it away. Suppose it was popular in the early 1900s or something when you scared dc into submission.

I've been reading this thread with great interest, how fascinating to read of your experiences, and relating them to mine!

For instance, I've got this great big book of the Grimm fairy tales, in French, that I had as a child and I cherish. I've read some stories, like Snow White and Aschenputtel(? it's Cendrillon in French), to dd, but sge wasn't impressed at all! The stories are really short compared to the Disney version, the characters are not as developed, and of course they are really dark... I couldn't bring myself to read dd the end of the evil queen in the Grimm version of Snow White! To be fair I was a bit older when I read them as a child (my dd is nearly 6).

Anyway, as you have no doubt gathered, we're French-speakers. We live in the UK, I'm single , it's just dd and me! She goes to a local state school, we speak Frech at home and outside most of the time, but we also speak a lot of English. I have to, for instance, help her with her reading and spellings in English, also generally with the homework. Although if at all possible I repeat things in French. Her spoken French is great, she makes some mistakes but I take that as normal, all French speaking children that I know here make the same kinds of mistakes so I don't worry about it too much, I just repeat the correct way.

We've also got lots of books, videos, cds, magazines and dvds in French, also computer games (although if someone could recommend some that would be great!).

I have started teaching my dd to read in French, because her reading in English is brilliant and she was starting to read things in French by herself. She's got a subscription to this great little magazine that has a long story (a "novel" ) with a CD. It's also got shorter stories, wordplay, jokes. That's helping a lot and dd loves it.

It's not all perfect though, far from it! I worry that we speak too much English, sometimes she refuses to speak French. I worry about grammar, of all things! I want my dd to be able to write well in French as well and for that you need the grammar. I am not sure I am up to teaching grammar, and I don't know how (if at all) they teach it in English schools.

Wow, look at me, I don't post much for ages and all of a sudden I write this great big mammoth post! Thanks for reading this far!

We speak French at home and not Frech
although you might have gathered as much as I mentionned the word 11 times!

I find that my dc learn alot and improve their english every year when we are in the UK. At home we speak english (outside german) but they always learn new expresions from their british cousins and family.

How often do you go to France ButternutSquash?

We go to France about 2-3 times a year, and like you I find it does wonder to my dd's French.

One of the things that is missing for her here is to play with other children, in French. We do socialise with other French-speaking families, but the children tend to speak English to each other. Also these other children are in the same situation as my dd, so they all lack the vocabulary of play, IYSWIM.
So that's where dd benefits enormously from contact with her French cousins. She always comes back with new expressions and naughty words!

Agree with the need for children to have lots of input of the 'minority' language, especially if (like in our case) only one parent speaks the language.

What helps our dcs german is the German Saturday School they go to once a week. There are about 5 or 6 in the London area.

Perhaps such Saturday schools exists for other languages? Or after-school lanugage clubs?

Wish we had an English saturday school like that here annasmami but as far as I know there isn't anything like it. I know the Haus der Russischen Kultur has an excellent programm for Russian speaking dc - Saturday school and once they start normal school, afternoon lessons in Russian. There's one for Chinese too but that's all I know of.

Keep waiting for admylin to find her true vocation in fact and open a Saturday school here.

Butternut, I was speaking to a French mum at dd's school. She says there is an institute in Paris which helps parents living overseas with teaching materials and teaching courses to enable the parents to teach their dc to read and write in French. Do you know what institute that would be? She said she attended a course on how to teach her dd to read French and got all the material there too. They have summer courses apparently. Find that excellent. Wish we had something comparable for English.

Mind you I would still rather spend my summer holiday lazing around a pool in Spain...

ButternutSquash - I think Ssshakethechi is referring to the program called CNED which is designed by the French education ministry to help French kids keep up with the French system when they are not currently in it.

I know some French mums who follow this (some with the help of a tutor) as their children have had to go into the English system as they couldn't get a place in the lycee in London.

The brits and the germans need to check on their neighbours as I find the french education ministry is doing a great job. We could do with something like that.
It was so hard for me just to find out what the curriculum for my class 1 and 2 dc would be in the UK and as for the german system, they can't even agree from town to town what the curriculum is so you are really left on your own.

Oooh, yes, I had forgotten about the CNED, thanks for reminding me! I looked into it a couple of years ago but couldn't afford it, I'll have to look again!