At the end of my tether with DTS1 age 6.

[CapnMurica]

I just don't know what to do. He keeps on pooing himself.

I don't think he's constipated (although when he goes, he does MASSIVE ones) but that he's withholding because he doesn't want to get up and go.

He was six in January, has been wee-trained reliably since 2 weeks after his 3rd birthday (as has his brother). They were both - pardon the pun - shitty about shitting and we had a lot of number 2 accidents between age 3 and 5. However, DTS2 has stopped all of that, completely (probably around age 5? It was late), and seems not to get why his brother keeps on doing it. DTS2 also seems to be night trained, whereas his brother still wets 2-3 times a week. We did only start this within the last three weeks as they were both still regularly waking up with saturated pull ups. I only mention this in case people think it is relevant! Also, they were 4 weeks early, no special care. No issues other than speech delay for which they both attend a SALT unit at a local school.

We have tried praising and rewarding him when he goes and ignoring the poo. Have tried yelling and withdrawing privileges/toys etc. When smaller, we tried the chocolate button for poos and bubbles in the toilet (I posted at the time but I can't remember where I put or under which username so can't find it, sorry!).

I'm just so upset now. Went to put boys to bed about an hour ago, he's pooed himself again. It's not a full on poo, just a nasty skid - but enough that it requires a bath. He was sitting in his room watching Stampy on Youtube . We tried using the tablet as a reason to go to the toilet - but no, even though it is portable he would rather just shit himself and deal with the fallout after.

Please can someone offer some help? I just do not know where to go from here. It's so upsetting; it happens at school as well (although not for a while) and I so worry that he's going to end up being the little boy that stinks and has no friends because of it .

Thanks in advance if you read this far.

No real advise sorry but have you been to the doctors? Does he definitely know he has pooed?? Maybe back into night time nappies for now. My cousin is nearly 8 and still has night time nappies, she has desirable ones with patterns on which look fairly similar to pants other than the.poppers

Haven't yet, but I'm going to make an appointment tomorrow. The problem (as well) is that he will not verbalise what the problem is! No matter how or when I/DH asks (so after a bollocking or not) he will not answer and tell us why he does it. He is speech delayed but not to the point he doesn't know how to say 'I didn't want to get up' or 'it came out too quick'.

Night times I'm less bothered about if I'm honest. I'd rather he didn't need nappies but I can deal with that. The poo is just disgusting though

Watching with interest aa's my eight year old soils too. Only a few times a month but I feel the exasperation. He is not constipated, so the doctors say, and the X-ray and ultrasound confirm, but then whenever we have the accidents he isn't due an appointment so it may be an intermittent thing? Dunno. But anyway he is still in soaked through night time pants too. He has been under a pead for a number of years now but they haven't really done much, just the X-rays and ultrasounds periodically which I suppose is all they can do? But he has finally got an appointment with the enuresis clinic so we hope they might shed some light. Oh, and ds says he doesn't feel it and happily sits there with soiled undies!

He could have impact/constipation issues that mean he isn't getting the proper sensation messages.

Night time training is down to hormones it's not deliberate so leave him in pull ups for now regarding that.

I know about the hormones RandomMess which is why I haven't tried before now - but I read on another thread that someone was advised to try by an incontinence nurse to try as it might be that the nappy/pull up soaks everything up so well they are wetting and waking but not being arsed to get up. They also, at age 6, don't want to be wearing nappies overnight hence the trying.

I have considered constipation, but he doesn't have to strain when he goes, never has any watery poo (like overflow) and also never has a tummy ache or a hard tummy. Believe me, I might not have posted but I have lurked on all those type of threads! Of course I will follow it up with the doctor.

So frustrating isn't it

I had one who would ALWAYS leave going for a wee until the last minute and often not quite make it to the look 50% of the time. Drove me crazy. Difficult though because anxiety then starts to play a part if you tell them it's not acceptable - grrr.

Do you think there is any link to him feeling more relaxed and it then occurring? I remember my cousin getting her son to have long warm baths when he was withholding as that often got him to go and therefore avoid an accident.

Agree you need to talk to GP, or School Nurse/Community Paediatrician. This could be symptomatic of some types of bowel disorder (your comment about MASSIVE poo's rings a bit of a warning bell here). Or it could be chronic constipation with overflow, or he might benefit from a different approach to bowel training.
Locally our Continence Team Specialist Nurses (the same ones who deal with 'leaky' adults) manage this sort of problem in children, but it varies from area to area throughout NHS, so might be different in your area.
Also he may not want to use school toilets for a poo - not unusual with school age children unfortunately and can be a cause of constipation due to habitual 'holding on'.
Worth keeping a chart of bowel actions and 'accidents' for a while to see if there is any pattern (different at w/e or holidays for instance) but try not to make too much of a fuss about it.
It is a miserable and aggravating problem for you but hopefully your GP/Community Team should be able to help.
Have you seen the www.eric.org.uk website? Good for information about child continence issues.

I don't have any advice as my dd is only 2 but we have had lots of problems with withholding and the only thing that's helped is the book by Dr Anthony Cohn (should come up if you google his name but the book is all about constipation and withholding). We also went to see him as you can pay for private referrals, could be an option if you're near NW London or Herts? It seems such a psychological thing that it can take a long time to break, you just need to find someone who knows what they're talking about.

My ds2 was like this was potty trained at 2.5 & only rarely had wet accidents but he would not ever poo on the toilet I could sit him for half an hour he'd do nothing then get off pull pants up and go poo his pants, soooo frustrating
We learned after a while that he didn't like an audience so to speak and if I left the room and let him lock the door he'd try and go on the toilet I think he also couldn't be bothered actually waiting on the toilet too if it didn't come straight away he'd be straight off likewise he'd leave it til the very last minute to go sometimes getting there in time sometimes not. I stopped making an issue out of it and just cleaned him up without saying anything this helped as he wasn't getting any sort of attention from doing it.
It did eventually get better he has the odd occasion where he's left it too late but normally if he's left in peace and no one is around he will go to the toilet himself.
He was turned 4 before he was dry at night his nappy/pull up would be sopping each morning but we soon realised that he pee'd in it because he knew the nappy was on so didn't need to go the toilet, once we took them off him he was dry at night after a few days he only had accidents if we'd been out somewhere and he'd had more than normal to drink in the evening or if he'd not had a few wees before getting into bed

My son did that around that age, lasted a few months, then stopped. Unfortunately whilst it was happening we were on holidays with in laws who made big deal of it which made me stressed and worried. Now I look back and think it was just probably weird hormones or allergy to something.

Thanks all for your help.

mstumble I wish I could blame it on that, but it seems to be random. He goes through a long time with no accidents at all (haven't had one since Xmas at least) and then one today. Up till age 6ish though, it was at least one every two weeks - in a good two week period!

It was better when we would make him go and sit on the toilet, but because he's been ok we have sort of forgotten about that. I think as an interim solution while I wait for a doc's appointment (although to be fair my surgery is pretty good, we probably won't have to wait long) it might help.

Should I take him with me? Or go by myself and explain?

We're not near Herts or NW London (in Liverpool) but I'm from Watford and have family near there, so if it gets worse might explore Dr Cohn as a possibility.

I took my ds to see gp and also hv came out to the house both said it was behavioural rather than physical, he seemed to be embarrassed by me talking about him this way it sort of scared him into going the toilet (him being scared or embarrassed was not my intention at all )

Is your Ds by any chance hypermobile? And is he the kind of child who is sometimes quite easily distracted, but then at other times so engrossed (in for example, Stampy) that he wouldn't notice a herd of elephants charging at him? My Ds (8) occasionally has this kind of poo issue too. He is very bendy, was late to walk, and hardly ever cries when he hurts himself in case it slows him down doing whatever he's wanting to do. His teachers have found that he tunes out instructions, and he claims not to know when he needs a poo so that it is always a big surprise when he suddenly desperately needs one and doesn't make it to the loo in time. I am completely convinced that his brain is wired in such a way that if it is thinking about Stampy, no messages about pain, or needing a poo, or hearing an adult voice can get through. It's very frustrating but I have come to accept that it is a part of him, and perhaps he genuinely doesn't realise when he needs to go...

lexyloub - I'll be honest, it does seem to me that he's embarrassed for some reason, rather than a physical issue. He has never had a physical problem, never been constipated or had diarrhea. But, I know that doesn't make it true!

Biscuitsneeded - no, not hypermobile. Walked at about 14 months? Pretty average. For about six months after we started the potty training he was fine - then they both started soiling themselves! It's only ever a nasty skid though, seemed to be able to get to the loo for a proper poo!

I hope you can get him evaluated by his GP. Encopresis is a mental/behavioral disorder where a child soils themself repeatedly without a known physical cause. It could be this, and this requires behavioral intervention. I know that mental health services are overloaded with kids with serious mental/behavioral issues but it might help getting referred to a primary mental health team (think it's called that in the UK but I'm not from the UK). Then a behavior therapist can evaluate him and see what might be contributing to his soiling and what will stop it.

Thanks all. I have made an appointment for him at the doctors on Monday and we'll take it from there.