Failing to discipline a 3 year old!

[Chopsypie]

DD is 3 and gradually getting more out of control.
She is using wetting and dirtying her pants as a 'protest' against me telling her no (she has been potty trained for about 6 months with no problems). She is quite destructive with hers and her brothers toys, and won't walk nicely when out and often runs around screaming in shops etc.
She doesn't seem to respond at all to removing toys/treats, she will happily sit on time out with a smile on her face and laughs when I try and explain consequences etc

I feel like all I do is tell her off, and it's really getting me down. I have a DS who is 4 who we use time out for as well but I sometimes feel like I punish him for her behaviour especially when we end up leaving places early because she won't listen.

DD gets plenty of sleep ad exercise and is bright and cheery with no special needs.

How do I get her to behave? I don't expect perfect kids but I would love to be able to take her someone without a massive sense of trepidation in case she decides she doesn't want to listen.

I can't really offer any advice but if it makes you feel any better I'm having exactly the same trouble so you are not alone ;-)

have you tried all the positive parenting stuff, so rewarding the good rather than punishing the bad behaviour?

I'd try to think about how you can control the situations so she can't cause damage. If she's running around in shops - some kind of rein or strapped into a buggy or trolley. If she can't be trusted with her brother's toys - don't let her play with them. If she isn't good at listening, try not to put yourselves in situations where you rely on her listening to avert major disaster while you work on that skill with her in non-critical situations.

What sort of situations do you find you need to go home because she's not listening? Could she not come and sit next to you for a while or something depending on the setting so DS can carry on having fun?

I think if you can get more in control of situations so she's not able to do the destructive things then you won't be constantly needing to tell her off and things will altogether feel more positive. And if she wants to have that independence back she has to earn it by showing you she can listen.

For example at 2 and 3 we practiced scooting and stopping when I say, over and over, gradually letting them go further away as their stopping became more reliable. (And sometimes they get a go at telling me when to stop to make it more fun!) If they didn't stop on the other hand, the scooter would be taken away and they'd have to walk with me to stay safe. Similarly for walking along the road, if they can walk nicely and stay close, they can walk on their own - if they show the slightest sign of running off or messing about, they need to hold a hand.

Briefing in advance can be surprisingly effective. If I remember to remind DD before we go into the shop that it will be busy and she needs to stay next to me or sit in the trolley, she's much more likely to do so. And giving her specific jobs to do - if I ask her to go and fetch a cucumber, she'll be busy doing that not jumping around the aisles or poking the carrots.

I hope that doesn't sound all preachy - but maybe some ideas that could help. DD is 3 too and drives me nuts some days. I suspect that's my fault for expecting too much of her, not really her fault. She's 3 and full of curiosity and energy and not much impulse control, I'm the adult in the situation.

Thanks for the responses so far.
I do try to always reward good behaviour, either with praise, cuddles or small treats and that works great with DS.

I often can't stay and make her sit with me, as the only way I would achieve that is to physically force her to sit and continue holding her down which is not only exhausting and embarrassing, it means I can't watch/play with DS. He is only 4 so not fully in dependant.

I think it's the repeated bad behavior that gets to me most. She will do something, I will tell her no, she will do it again, I'll remove her, she will go back again and again no matter what I do or say until I lose my temper and out her in her room. Then she screams and cries and says sorry. As soon as I say she can come out she usually does it again!
She drives me potty, I suspect on purpose.

Have you read 'Toddlercalm'? I found it quite helpful. Sounds very frustrating, hope things improve soon.

I'm not really picturing the situation. Can you give us an example? Where are you, what is DD doing that you can't prevent her from doing? Perhaps someone can give you a good practical suggestion.

And no, I don't find just saying no to a three year old effective either. They forget, or they just do it again because they don't have impulse control to stop themselves. I really don't think they're doing it on purpose. Unless it's become an attention-getting game in which case YY to spending more attention on the positives. It also helps to direct them positively towards something else rather than just say no to whatever they can't have. "No DD we don't draw on walls. Come on, let's get some paper for you." "No DD, DS was using the train. Why don't you have this car?"

Do you think what's going on here could be a competing for your attention thing?