Need advice! Custody battle ahead!

[poisenedivy]

Ok guys, i need some help! Been seeing somebody for a few months now although known each other for 2 years plus. I have children from a previous relationship, as does he. He was married to his ex, still is legally! She met somebody else, kicked him out and pretty much moved the new man in with her and the kids within a week or 2. She is not happy about "our" relationship, main reason being myself and her used to be friends until i started to question alot of the "stories" i was being told, confronted her with things she had said to others and she denied the lot despite me knowing for a fact it was true and then she turned nasty. Anyway, this person had children previously removed from her care by social work, reason not entirely known by my partner or others but she claimed her ex was abusive, and that was the reasoning, have since found out the children were placed in the care of their grandparents on their fathers side and the father still has access, but she does not, so her story does not ring true for obvious reasons! Current situation is that she is constantly changing access agreements with my partner and his kids, has claimed to others that he was also abusive (physically and emotionally) and that he ended their relationship after having an affair with myself, all completely in her head! She has tried to cause problems for all 3 of my children with school claiming they have said/done things to her 2, all of which i have discussed with the school and again is all in her head! She has told her children that i am a "nasty lady" that they are not to speak to me (although they do when she is not present lol) she has also told them that their daddy can't speak to them when he is with me, and tells them he isn't seeing them more because he is too busy with my kids (truth is she rarely allows him contact and he spends very little time with my children!!) Today he has been allowed contact with the children and the eldest has told him that mummy is planning to move them to another area (where her boyfriend and his family lives) meaning them changing schools despite the eldest struggling with change which she freely admits yet she has not mentioned anything to the childrens father!! She has had alot of issues with other parents at the school, making false accusations both inside and outside of the school to the point of involving the police repeatedly! she has already started this process with me claiming that i have contacted social services and made complaints to her boyfriends workplace about him, again in her head! There is no rational speaking with this person, she tells him one thing then completely contradicts herself with regard to access, with regard to money and with regard to the children! She changed her mobile phone number and refuses to give him the number for emergency use, meaning he has no way of contacting her if there is a problem with the children when he has them which in my opinion is ridiculous!!! Partner has already seen a lawyer and had a letter sent to her in an attempt to solidify his access, she claimed twice that she had seen different lawyers but still had no response from her lawyer at all or any contact from them and latest comment she made was that she hadn't seen a lawyer! Today she cut the youngest childs fingernails, and was rushing, to the point that she made 2 of the nails bleed!!!! Her behavior is constantly erratic, one minute she is all nicey nicey the next it is nothing but lies and abuse, changing contact, refusing contact or filling the childrens heads with nonsense and purposely scaring them!!! The only plausible next step we can see is for him to go to court for full custody of the children, something we both have said is a last resort but don't see any other options and not willing to give her the chance to run with the children! Can anyone advise on a timescale for getting this to court, anything we need to do before hand, any alternative routes to try or any advice on how to stop her doing what she is doing to avoid court all together!!! Should also note that the eldest is currently being "tested" for behavioral issues.... my opinion on these is that he simply does not have behavioural issues, but that he does not know where he stands with anybody thanks to mother dearest! She feels everyone is picking on him constantly, says that his teachers are picking on him in front of him, falls out with literally every other childs parent/s that he makes friends with and tells him all this crap about his father! The younger one is now scheduled to go in to hospital for a routine procedure, whilst there she told the doctors that the child has issues sleeping (untrue) meaning the doctors are considering more tests for that one too based on something that is not happening!!! This is another major concern for us both!! I apologise for the length of this post, but even at this, it does not explain half of the craziness! Social services will not get involved without "hard evidence" which of course we do not have because none of this is done in writing or where there are witnesses, few people are aware that she has older children because if asked how many children she has she will say 2 (the 2 she has now only!) this is also a concern to me as a mother! Also not sure if anyone is more clued up than me, but is it possible for the childrens father to request more information regarding the children that were removed? in terms of exactly WHY they were removed as it may have implications for his 2! They were involved just before the birth of their eldest child together because she was spotted at an aqua natal class (presume she was supposed to notify them of any pregnancies after their previous involvement but failed to do so!) but did not give details of what exactly had happened before! The concern for us is the children, nothing more nothing less and in my opinion he has a right to know whether they feel the children are at risk based on past events! If anyone can offer any advice please help! Just don't know what else to do, and apprehensive about the full custody route. xx

you can apply to social service I believe but they won't be able to give you any details unless there is a direct threat to your partners kids I believe. do you know the other dad or grandparents to ask them directly?

I would suggest your partner applies for a prohibitive steps order in the first instance to stop her moving away and then start applying for full custody if that is what he wants.

good luck!

Thankyou for your advice! Don't know the family directly, could probably go through other channels to find out as a friend of ours knows the situation better than us, but that friend has also had issues with the mother bringing about false accusations so trying to limit the involvement of others and do everything through the "proper" routes to avoid more issues! First either of us have heard about a prohibitive steps order, have been looking in to it thismorning and it certainly sounds like what we need to at least prevent the move! Full custody is very much a last resort as in our opinion it is more upheaval for the children but seems to be the only way to safeguard them and prevent any more damage done to them by their mother. Will advise him to go back to social services again and see if that goes anywhere, just need to know that the issues of the past are no longer issues! Thanks again! xx

Youve been seeing him a few months? Quite honestly i think you need to take a huge step back and let him and his ex sort out things themselves. It may involve court but it really shouldnt involve you. Tbh it sounds like you are a cause of some tension and for a relationship of just a few months it shouldnt be like that. For the sake of my partner and his DC i would step right back, and only see him on his own until things were settled. You really shouldnt be involved in the solicitors and court decisions.

understand your point, however the relationship between us came as a result of the friendship we had for over 2 years, so it is certainly not something either of us have just jumped in to without knowing each other. Was a close friend to both of them, i stepped back a bit when i started to question her motives, she basically told me she wasn't happy and she was thinking of ending it, i told her not to rush to end it after 10 years because of the children, suggested mediation, I spoke to him and told him her concerns so that he could try to save their marriage but she instead kicked him out a week later for the new man! Tried to remain friends with both after they split, my friendship with him was then made out to be an affair that had been going on for months yet she did not come to me once to find out, simply used me to make herself out to be the victim in the situation! He was not allowed "friends" during their relationship/marriage, was made to feel guilty about any friendships and was forced to choose between her and their kids and his own family by her. Their children know me well, i was asked by her numerous times to collect her children from school, or to watch them for her etc which i did with no hesitation. She knows me well enough to know there was nothing going on between me and him until well after they had split, and even now we are taking things incredibly slow because of the situation. My role is more of support for him than the token "interfering new woman" the children have known me for over 2 years, know i am not the things she makes out and constantly ASK for me to come on days out with them, come for dinner etc etc and 99% of the time i say no purely because of her. I am actually spending much less time with them than i was before they split! In my opinion the children need consistency, we have discussed ending things completely until the mess is sorted, but do not see that helping anything because she finds issue with anyone he speaks to in any way! He needs to be able to demonstrate that he has support should he need it regarding the care of the children, if he were to fall and break his leg while he has the children he has literally nobody other than myself that he can contact thanks to her ensuring he lost his own family and previous friends! He has no contact number for her other than her home number which is useless as she generally will not answer her home phone to him unless she wants something and is rarely at home! From a basic safety point of view he needs somebody that he can trust, that the children know and trust that can be there for him and for them! The children yesterday asked me repeatedly to stay over with them, and both said "it's ok we wont tell mum" now forgive me, but for young children to feel that they cannot be honest with their own mother there is something very wrong! Needless to say i told them that i couldn't stay and had to make up a lie to explain why i wouldn't/couldn't which i also have issue with since they are constantly lied to by her, but put simply, I will not allow her to treat the children differently because of me! she already shouted at them once because they were excited about me coming to the park with them a few weeks ago (the last time i saw them!) If i were a complete stranger, or somebody that she knew nothing of, or a stranger to the kids, or somebody that actually had caused her marriage to end etc etc i could see your point aswell as hers, but the fact of the matter is she is the one at fault, not me or their father.

the relationship between us came as a result of the friendship we had for over 2 years, so it is certainly not something either of us have just jumped in to without knowing each other.

It wasnt my concern that you didnt know him well enough. I think you are too over involved both as a friend and as a new partner of just a few months. My best friend of 10 years has been through hell and high water with her ex and ive been there to listen and support but i dont involve myself in her decisions with regard to solicitors and court, i dont go in forums asking what "we" should do our what "our" next step is. Why? Because it is her relationship with her ex and her children. As close as i am to her i can only be a friend to support and should never actually become involved in the proceedings.

my friendship with him was then made out to be an affair that had been going on for months yet she did not come to me once to find out, simply used me to make herself out to be the victim

another reason you should step back from the discussion involving the DCs. She clearly has animousity towards you, this will mean your involvement in custody proceedings will make her more likely to be difficult and cause problems. For your partners sake and the DCs sake i think it would only be right to remove that unneccesary aspect of things. You can still date him and support him but you wont be coming across as sticking your nose in where it doesnt belong. It really sounds complicated enough as it is, is your ego so big it cant take a step back to allow the process to be resolved as easily as possible?

Its great that youve recognised the need to take things slowly and not be constantly there with him when his dcs are there, i think you just need to extend that to the custody proceedings. It really isnt a "we" or "us" situation. It is his situation that you cant support him through but you dont have custody battle ahead of you with a man youve been seeing a few months. Just like it wouldnt be your custody battle if he was still your friend of 2 years.

but the fact of the matter is she is the one at fault, not me or their father.

He needs to take some responsibility for the fact he had children with someone who had already had DCs removed from er and with whom she had no contact. Someone with that sort of background clearly had or has issues regarding raising children and he should have been sure he knew what those issues were and that he was prepared to take that risk before creating more with her. He cant just blame her for being a crap parent now he has left her when he chose to help her become one again. He bears some responsibility for this situation.

First off, he wasn't aware that she had any children previously, this is part of the problem. He only found this out when social services became involved close to the birth of their first child together, and then he got fed a story she thought he would believe and played the "victim" card as she has done constantly since. As far as my involvement regarding custody/court, this is a moot point because i have no direct involvement other than that of supporter as i stated above. I use "we" and "our" as i would if i was speaking of any other close friend, just as i did when i was tricked in to making a police report on her behalf when one of her previous targets and her almost got in to a fist fight outside the school! I ended up in between them both, thinking my "friend" was being victimized because i took her word as fact (as most of us would do when it comes to people we think we know!) when in fact it was completely the opposite. I have no "ego" that needs to be fed, but also recognise the need for consistent support for both him and the children. He is very unsure of the route to and from court, and has asked me for advice, not having been involved in anything of the like before i took it upon myself to ask for advice from those who may have had the misfortune to have been in or close to a similar situation who my be able to offer some advice. The children are basically isolated, they do not socialize with other children from school or from the area because she makes friends, then decides they are this that and the other when they start to see through her mind games. If your friends ex held issue with every person she speaks to, had issue with her children speaking to you, your children, other children would you immediately say "oh well, can't support you now" or "oh well must ignore your children if they come to speak to me" ?! quite sure you wouldn't and yet this is what you are suggesting is ok here? As a mother it pains me to see what they are being put through and whether i was a friend/associate/lover/whatever i would still be of the same opinion! Before they split he was accused of affairs with all and sundry, not to him, but to her "friends", he always played a very visibly active role in their lives and yet she claimed he did not? again simply playing "victim" role! Her latest target was never a "friend" of hers or his, their respective children simply had a falling out, at which point she made a false allegation to the police claiming that the other mother had attempted to fire-bomb her house?! needless to say that after investigations this was un-proven! So my "involvement" basically makes no difference, if she decides i am a target then i am a target regardless!

would you immediately say "oh well, can't support you now" or "oh well must ignore your children if they come to speak to me" ?! quite sure you wouldn't and yet this is what you are suggesting is ok here

That isnt what i suggested at all. It is very clear in my posts that i have said you can still support him without being involved in the custody proceedings.

Apologies for assuming he knew about the other children before he created a child with her.

I stand by my comments that you do seem over involved, and even seem to have been involvd in their relationship before they split up. She seems an unpleasant type however one both you and he chose to have relationships with so one you accepted for a time. It does seem that now he has left her and you are with him that her faults are suddenly ammo to use against her when previously they were no problem as you were her friend.

Im going to leave the thread as i dont think you like what im saying and i dont have anything else to say that i think you would take on board. It is clear there are "victim" mentalities all round and not just on her part.

No victim mentality here at all, although probably should be lol. It's not that i am not taking your comments on board or don't like that you are saying, so forgive me if it comes across as such! It's simply a case that i want what is best for the children, it's just that neither of us are sure about the best route to follow to get to the best end result for them! I can't help and advise him if i don't know myself lol.
I see your point of her faults suddenly being flagged up, however i can only say i was very naive to it previously because i genuinely did see her as a close friend. When she told me something was happening i believed it, and only now that i am seeing things from the other side do i realise the truth! She told me constantly that social services had been sent to her door by others, i never thought to question that until other things that she said completely contradicted herself. Since asking him recently i discovered there were no visits from social work, and one of her targets was actually somebody closely involved with them!
I do feel i am over involved, but can only put that down to the mother in me, and the realization that all is not what it was made out to be.
I am a mother of 3 children (to 2 previous partners) the eldests dad chose not to be involved in her life the other chose alcohol over his children and therefore has no involvement at all. I am in no rush to become any kind of "step-mother" to another 2 lol nor do i take lightly any child being removed from their mothers care. I have ignored all of her comments relating to me, and only took action regarding speaking to the school when she started her games with my children, much as she has done with others, and i intend to continue this route of ignoring it when directed at me because i feel a reaction from me is what she is looking for!
At the end of the day every child deserves to be loved, cared for, looked after and put first by their parents these children are not getting that from her. I cannot just stand back and do nothing, it's not in me to be that way! I hate having to ignore the children when she has them and i see them, but i feel i have no choice and sadly the children have realised this aswell. If at any point i feel that my relationship is not in the childrens interests (my children or his) it will be ended, this is something me and my other half have discussed more than once, the kids come first, for both of us and always will. I have been on the receiving end of my kids asking about their useless fathers and it kills me, so to see this situation unfold in front of me is horrible. I am not the victim, the children are the ones suffering and i simply cannot understand her mentality of purposely trying to hurt them as she is.

if your dp is happy for you to be involved then ignore the self righteous crap on mn. as far as some people are concerned it matters not a jot if you have been together 5 days or 50 years.

I definitely think you need to get your dp to speak to a solicitor about a prohibitive steps order and I would also get them to speak to social services on his behalf.

there are numerous reasons why pr is removed from a parent, ime the most usual cause is a violent relationship that the parent reuses to end. I have been involved in a scenario where my exh and I were asked to take custody of his nephews kids to prevent them being taken into foster care. unfortunately we were not able to take them in but as their mum refused to end her violent relationship then the children were removed and have now been put up for adoption. your dp needs to ask some very serious questions and if you know the location of the children's relatives then I would write a note or knock on the door. explain the situation, apologise for intruding but explain he needs to know how far to push it wrt custody of his kids.

for me however I wouldn't be waiting to find out and I would be asking the courts to make a temporary ruling in his favour to be safe.

Thankyou Wheres! Just very aware of trying to do things by the book to avoid problems further down the line, don't want something we do now to jeopardize things in the long term! His lawyer seemed to be of the impression if it went to court it would be a long slow process, which is not ideal, but if it is the only route left then so be it! Will see if i can sort a coffee with the lady that knows more about the social services side than we do, certainly worth asking on the quiet i guess, just worried she is gonna say it was something really bad and then there is still long drawn-out court process before action is taken! She made out the father of the other children was violent, and that he hurt the children, but to me if that was the case she would be the one with access and not him? 2 older children were removed and then the third was removed before he/she even got registered. He is heading to the lawyers office first thing in the morning to see if he can get seen ASAP and will make sure he asks about the prohibitive steps order and see where we go from there. Really makes me sad that it has come to this, he has bent over backwards to make things as simple as possible for the kids but she just doesn't seem to care :(

Hang on, he didn't think he needed to call SS on her when they were together..........

Similarly I can't understand why he would leave the children in her care if she is such a bad mother. I mean he would have left with the dc, No?

It is never nice when your DP of ten years goes off with one of your friends. I suspect she is reacting to that.

Regarding her other dc. Of course your do can't report her now otherwise it looks like a bum fight between two exs.

And since her exs partners mum has the other dc it is plausible that it was both of them who were incapable of looking after them.

He just gets to see the dc because it's his mother who has them.

It's often the way it goes. If her mother got them it's likely she would still see them but not him. Often folk just make a clean break. Yes even from their removed dc.

Good luck. You have taken on a lot here.

A bun fight! Not bum

this is part of the problem quite, he was very much taken in by her lies, as i was, and took her word as given, well you would if you were married unless it was something really blatant! He feels really stupid now for not questioning more when SS were involved before the eldest was born, but she would get upset and made out she was traumatized by it all yadda yadda. Honestly, am not somebody that is taken in easily, but she sure had me fooled for a good 18 months before i started to smell a rat! She took issue with me before me and him got together, a good 6 weeks before it she was saying stuff behind my back whilst still speaking to me and acting normal! The biggest problem here i think is the burden of "proof" as in, there is very little we can "prove" because she is VERY careful about playing her little games! she will tell one person one thing, and another the opposite so it comes down to somebodies word against somebody elses! He can't "prove" that she intends to move, she mentioned a move to the next town to him and he told her as long as the kids weren't taken out of the school they are in, then we find out from the eldest that it is a much bigger intended move, but of course, we can't go hunting in her house for evidence lol cannot legally record conversations with her and wonder how much mind a court setting would take of what a child is telling them?
It's all a big mess, we should all as adults be able to speak to one another and do what's right by the kids, but it simply isn't an option. I cannot go anywhere near her for fear of being accused of goodness knows what, and truth be told i am no longer confident i would be able to not go off on one and give her the reaction she craves which ultimately helps nobody. He has no choice but to leave the children in her care for now, when she kicked him out he had to move in to hotel room as he literally has no contact with his family or friends. By law he would be in the wrong if he refused to hand the children back after contact, because they are still living in the same home that they have always lived in with their mother (for now anyway!) so from a legal standpoint although he has "equal" parental responsibilities he has nothing in place to prove that the children are better off with him, and as such it would go against him. Messed up i know, but this is how it stands sadly. The school have indicated that she has been very erratic when she has been asked to go in to deal with any issues, and have stated to him how calm and collected he is in comparison. Just wish there was a straightforward way to sort this mess out, the court route i think is the right one, but the timescale is what worries us both, alot of damage has already been done with the kids mentally and i would imagine she will be given ample notice of proposed court action allowing her to continue this or even escalate it.