Bloody step-son issues!!

[hondafatboy]

Hiya....newbie here, so unsure of protocol.......so I'll wade straight in!

Long story to paint picture.

To allow my (19 yrs old in July) stepson to be eligible for a Gas, Heat and Plumb college apprenticeship, he has had to be employed through me as the plumbing company he works for did not want to take anyone on PAYE.

So for the last 2.5 yrs or so, I have employed him, invoiced the plumbing company he works with and then paid him through my company.

For the last year or so, the plumbing company has agreed to pay towards his mileage (1 week in arrears for ease of calculating the full weeks travel), so I now need information from S-Son as to how many miles he's done for work and a ppm value of what he is claiming from his boss (the plumber), which he sends me as an adobe invoice from his phone app.

I have to then invoice his boss every Thursday with his expenses, the hours he's worked that week so that he can pay into my company account on the Friday (sometimes Saturday and sometimes Sunday!!).

I then run a payroll, work out S-S's Tax/NI and pay him, less ded'ns and email him a payslip. (he also pays me back the employers NI contribution so I'm not out of pocket).

This is all fairly basic stuff and only takes up an hour or so of my time on a Thursday evening.

However, S-S is, not surprisingly lapse in his sending me the invoice for his mileage and there have been many occasions where I'm sitting at my PC on a Thurs night, chasing him for info so I can run off an invoice/payroll etc.

A couple of times, I've told him, no mileage invoice, no invoicing for his hours, no pay that week, which I did about 3 months ago and he got all shouty and stroppy and abusive (and ended up with his mum and dad both lending him cash to see him through - yeah thanks guys!) and him coming out looking like the injured party.

So......this evening, I yet again asked him for the mileage invoice for last week (which should have been with me 5 or 6 days ago) to which he said he's already sent it. I checked. He hadn't. He was just shooting out to an osteopath appt and said he's do it when he got there.

I responded (abruptly apparently, but in my head I was quite calm at the time) that actually could he do it right now, in case the email didn't get received my end and I'd be sitting, twiddling thumbs waiting to do the invoice/pay run etc.

This is where things got all shouty and phrases like, just because I'm in a bad mood, no need to be an effing pr1ck about it and other such sentences.

I (not liking to be spoken to BY ANYONE like that) responded with a reminder that last time he reacted like this because I was chasing him for info he hadn't supplied I said, I'd stop being his employee and he could sort himself out, so think carefully before continuing down this path.

More shouty, aggressive swearing and name calling as he stomps out the door and drives off with me saying we're done and he can find someone else to employ/put him on a payroll.

So, I then get the mileage invoice emailed over 5 minutes later saying he thought he'd sent it but it hadn't gone and apologising for his aggressiveness blah blah blah.

I say, thanks for the apology, but I'd warned him before and won't tolerate being spoken to with such disrespect and that this will be the last payroll I run for him.

Now I feel like an absolute arsehole because if I follow through with my statement then it will potentially mean he will not continue to get apprenticeship support from the college.

If I don't, then I an just all mouth and trousers and a spineless dickhead that lets a 19 yr old, gobshite talk to me like a piece of sh1t.

And before you say it, he is 6'3", body builder that would kick my arse if we went mano et mano!

Trouble is he's a pretty good kid. Very good at his job, works hard at it and done bloody well for 3 years (albeit being shit at handing in coursework, nearly being kicked off for handing it in late and being given an extension)

What's my next move?

BTW the wife fully appreciates my perspective and what I'm doing, but at the end of the day it's her son innit?

(I do like these long scenario post don't I? )

HFB

Anyone can lose their temper I would say I have done payroll this month and he should be thankful, and that in future if it's not in by x date you will not do it. That way he can continue and you are not being to harsh stopping his apprenticeship but you also show you mean business by not paying if he dosnt do his part. Your not asking anything that a regular employer wouldn't need so he has no reason to complain.

Hi Akire

That's what happened last time.

I did hold his wages back.

He got stroppy/abusive that time.

I said I don't expect to be spoken to like that, by anyone, especially family.

several weeks later, same thing.

How often should he be let to get away with such unacceptable reactions without consequences.

If he spoke to a real boss like that, he'd be looking for a new job!

If you don't have all the details you can't pay him, so how long is reasonable? Well for as long as he dosnt need the money! If he gets a full time job and had to submit time sheets/mileage in this line of work so he better get used to the idea.

i would think holding off pay would be enough detternt to get him to behave but if he still contines to be abusive then it's up to you and partner where you draw the line. And how much agro that would cause in the relationship. Hopefully it's a rocky patch and he will sort himself out in time but there's two sides to every coin. If you really can't take it then draw a line-once last chance then have to follow it through. but only you know new agro that it would be ing to the family!

Can you suggest that to make it fair on you both and so he can continue every day it is late you charge a fee for your wasted time and if you get left sitting there at the end of a day waiting you charge hourly for your time.

that way you are giving him a chance but still teaching him the value of time keeping

It sounds as if you've gone out of your way to help and support him and it's brought increasing stress and been taken for granted by him and his parents.

In your shoes, I'd give him (and them) one month's notice that you will be taking him off your employee list and let him or them set up a company and do the invoicing themselves.

It's great that he has a good work ethic etc but his attitude to you and your time and help is really awful. The bottom line is that if he had to supply this info to payroll in a normal work situation then it would have to be on time and abusing the staff would get him fired. So don't feel guilty - you're teaching him a valuable life lesson.

Have you tried to have a family meeting about this - both his parents, you and him at a set time to talk about what happens next. You say your bit - uninterrupted - explain how you are now in a difficult position and what do the rest of them propose to do to resolve it? Put the ball in their court a bit. Make it their problem to solve not yours. Quote the words he used to you and make it clear that you simply do not put up with being treated like that by anyone.

I don't understand how this is even legal. What work is he supposedly doing for you? Do you have to pay employers NI etc?

I get where your coming from I really do .He could be behaving so much worse you even said he was a good person .
How about asking him what he thinks is fair .Obviously explaining what you are thinking and his reaction to things .Explain he is backing you into a corner and you feel you have no option .Ask him to give you a solution .
I feel you do obviously do want him to succed and you are the adult .You can come out of this with him respecting you .

We all say things in the heat of an argument that we later regret. I don't think you have to follow through with every threat to be taken seriously. If you really don't mind doing the accounting for him, then I would say carry on but as others have said, maybe some penalties for being late/wasting your time etc.

I think it's a good idea to try and talk about it with the parents too, but to be honest at 19 he is an adult and you should be able to sort it out between you, treating him as a grown up who understands the consequences of his actions.

Comparing it to a real life work situation is pointless, my 15 y o is rude and obnoxious to me most of the time, despite being constantly pulled up on his attitude. He is completely different to his teachers and friends and I'm sure would be a delight to any future employers. It's just his parents he treats like crap!

He does need to know that you won't tolerate him calling you a prick etc, but I'd say the apology was probably quite humbling for him, so take it in the spirit it was intended and work from there.

I would type up a contract. Not legally binding, but something like, 'I, lovely stepson promise to submit my stuff on time or accept that the consequences will be....'
That'll be a compromise. You're seen to be doing something, but are still treating him like an adult.

Quite honestly if it was my son i would end the arrangement. You are doing a huge favour for him, he took the piss before and was warned, he has now done it again and acted abusively towards you for calling him on it. I would follow through with your threat. Maybe im too hard but i dont see what he has done to deserve to get yet another chance. If you were an employer not related to him he'd have had his contract terminated.

But Surly, do you always speak to friends and family in the exact same way as you would your boss? Haven't you ever had an argument with your DCs or DP/H? People don't behave the same way at home as they do at work.

I like the suggestion of a contract. I think most teenagers do appreciate a bit of structure and discipline so they know where they stand.

But Surly, do you always speak to friends and family in the exact same way as you would your boss?

No, nor are any of my family/friends going out of their way each week to ensure i have a wage. If they were you can bet theyd be owed a hell of a lot more respect than being called a prick. As it is i dont call any of my friends or family a prick or mouth off to them, and i wouldnt be interested in doing favours for anyone who spoke to me like that. Being family means certain behaviours are more relaxed and this is good and how it should be, it doesnt mean abusive behaviour is ok and even rewarded!

Maybe just stop reminding him? And only pay him if when and if the invoices come through?
I know it will be a pain if they come at the wrong time, but maybe he will just have to accept he doesn't get paid till the following week.
Could you just sit down with him and say "I love you and I'm proud of what you're achieving but I'm tired of the arguing and nagging. From now on, I will only do your payroll if and when you supply me with invoices. If I don't get them, I won't do anything about it".
Would that work?

Agree with most of the others here - you are doing a good thing but he is 19 and won't appreciate it fully for years yet (probably around the time he has his own children!)
Personally I would continue your business arrangement but start docking his money for every hour that he keeps you waiting - of course this might backfire as he might not mind losing a tenner here and there - but realistically you need to continue helping him secure his future and he needs to feel the consequences of his actions.
My friend used to work in a strip club, it's very hard to manage strippers who are obstensibly self employed though their pay is managed through the club, and that's how they worked. £25 fine if an hour late, £50 for two hours, one week ban from earning if over two hours. Harsh but worked very well!