On the brink of being depressed - what can I do to make everything easier?

[arabella2]

Hello
My dd is 5 weeks old and my ds 2 years and 5 months. It's been a real shock to me how difficult it is having two - dd does not really like to be put down and ds has obviously "suffered" through the birth of his sister in that he does not get the same level of attention as before and can also be very whingy at the moment. He still wakes once a night as well. Dh and I are not getting on particularly well at the moment - he is constantly criticising how much I pick up dd - I really want her to feel listened to but he advocates leaving her to cry a little before picking her up... (he says I pick her up at the first murmur). He also says that it is my fault she doesn't like anything but being carried (not true as she spends about 20 minutes under the playgym...). It is a very hard time for us. My heart aches to think of ds wondering why people are more aggressive towards him than they used to be - eg. when he leans all his weight on dd when she is being fed or tries to put his foot on her head (with shoe on) etc... Also dh and I argue quite a lot in front of him. This morning I came into the living room and ds said "shut up" to me - I said "why" and he said "you were talking to Daddy...".
Every second week dh has to go away for three days. I really cannot cope with both my kids on my own for that length of time. Last time he went away I went to MIL's - next time I don't know what to do... I suppose I will have to go there again. It was really hard work packing to go there and coming back to all the unpacking (she lives in another town)... also after a few days she gets a little bossy which I don't like. My own parents live abroad and I have various issues with them...
Dd is crying next door as we speak and I am waiting to see how long it takes dh to pick her up...
I was wondering what the going rate for an au pair was and what kinds of things they normally do and if anybody has any experience of them...
I just feel helpless and inadequate plus dh and I always at loggerheads which doesn't help...
What can I do apart from walking out of the door and not coming back?

Oh, Arabella, I feel for you, It must be really hard. I have just one child, dh might need to go away for work soon, and I'm dreading it.

I can't imagine spending time at your inlaws would be very much help either, esp. if you feel you're being criticised by your dh. For what it's worth, I don't agree with letting tiny babies cry, I can't imagine I could do it either.

Do you have room for an au-pair? Would you want someone else in your house all the time? Perhaps you could find a local mother's help, a mum with older children, who might be able to come in and give you a lift with the kids a few days a week.

Does ds go to a nursery or anything? Would that be possible just one or two half-days a week?, that would give you a bit of a break, and give him chance to shed a bit of energy.

Can you get any time to yourself? Right now I guess you could just do with more sleep, so try to bed down whenever you can. Tiredness is more depressing than anything else, and probably contributing to the probs between you and dh.

The first few weeks with a new baby are supposed to be magical, but in my estimation they are the hardest time in your life, and for your dh too.

Try to get someone in to help you, and get as much sleep as you can.

I'm sure it will get easier, but I'm thinking of you.

Arabella, I don't have any experience of an au pair but I think you are absolutely right to try and find some kind of help around the house. Would getting a cleaner help? (You don't have to have them LIVE with you, and I wonder if that would be extra worry for you right now). The right sort of cleaner might be up for a bit of babysitting while you got some sleep/time to yourself.

You sound as though you are having a horrible time, my heart goes out to you. It is never easy juggling the needs of two children, especially when one is a very new arrival and one is still under three. These are some of the things I found helped me get through those difficult first weeks:

• Reading or just watching TV with ds while dd is being fed. If you haven't got Digital/Freeview/Cable yet, CBeebies is well worth the outlay!
• Letting the baby squawk a bit. I found this almost impossible at first, but I did get used to it. I don't mean screaming, but grumbling.
• Pop her in a sling if she really won't be left. Ds was like this, luckily for us dd wasn't.

I'm SO sorry your dh is not being helpful either. And going away, too. Could your MIL not come to you this time? Could you bear it?

I hope others post with plenty of good ideas. I wonder whether you are in a town with other Mumsnetters nearby - company helps pass even the most fraught of days. Thinking of you.

Yes Arabella, where are you. When I had problems last year mumsnetters rallied round to help.

Perhaps we could just be of help when your dh is away?

Arabella2... give us an indication of where you are. I'm sure someone would help...a little bit of a break/chat/help is better than nothing...although it'll probably be with another kid in tow!

Oh hon (((hugs))) - it's hard isn't it? I know it doesn't help you now but it does get easier, it really does. At 5 weeks I don't believe you can spoil your dd, she is so little, and of course she was wants a lot of picking up and cuddling. Men, eh? Stick to your guns and do what feels right to you, there's time for leaving her to cry for a bit when she's older - she's only just out in the world!

There is no answer for the guilt you feel for your first - you can't give him the same attention you did before, hsi little world has turned upside down and it's no wonder he's more clingy and attention seeking. The way I reasoned it was that while I had taken something away by having a second child (undivided parental attention, being number one in the universe) I had given him something else - a sibling and hopefully, in time, a friend. Hasn't happened yet, they fight like cat and dog, but I live in hope! Your eldest will be more difficult - and harder to like - and, obviously, this is the time when he needs reassurance and to feel like his place in your affections is still secure. The wonder of a toddler's mind "I want to know Mummy still loves me so I'll be as unloveable as I possibly can."

Plus, you are exhausted from broken nights, and having to cope single-handed when your dh is away, no wonder you are feeling so down. Depression is a tricky one - I have suffered from PND and I know it was aggravated (possibly even triggered) by extreme tiredness. Sometimes it's hard to know where tiredness ends and depression begins. I would go and have a chat with your GP - anti-depressants aren't a miracle cure all but they have been a life-saver for me. They help you cope with the day to day grind a bit more easily.

It's hard I know, when you and your dh are at loggerheads all the time - is there any chance yo can go out for a meal alone, or even a quiet drink. Try and talk when you are not in the middle of it - sometimes it feels like a war zone with babies crying and toddlers demanding attention. I know that feeling of wanting to walk out and leave it all behind....

I was blessed with my Mum on my doorstep for when it all got too much, so I don't know about au pairs but I'm sure someone will have advice there for you. A friend of mine had a volunteer from Home Start when she had two children under 2 to look after. She came in once a week so my friend had a couple of hours with the eldest.

With regard to the MIL - you have to decide if the benefits outweigh the bossiness and the hassle of getting there. Could she come to you instead?

That was a bit stream of consciousness as things occured to me so I hope it's of some help. It really does get easier - but it's pretty cr*p for a while I'm afraid. Take care xx

Arabella Things will get better .
My dh works really long hours and having two is so hard sometimes. At 5 weeks old it really is early days for dd and as you start to get more sleep you will feel tons better.
My dd is 5 and she felt a bit put out by all the attention ds got(he is 9 mnths now)when he first arrived but she has adjusted well - although she still can get jealous occasionaly(sp)(. You are not helpless and inadequate - it is exhausting , a 2 year old is exhausting on their own. You and dh are probably falling out a lot because you are both tired and also a the initial euphoria of having a new baby has worn off as the day to day stuff takes over.. My best friend came to stay when ds was 6 weeks old with her dh and 2 yr old and I was so tired that I felt I had lost my personality iykwim
If you have to go to in laws this time , go with it. If they offer help whilst you are there take it- your body is still recovering after the birth you need a rest sometimes.Sorry this is a bit garbled I have to go out soon but I wish You well and I hope you keep posting.

Arabella
What a horrible time for you when you should be having fun with your new DD.

I honestly don't think you are depressed at all - I just think you are horrendously unsupported.

No one can be everything to everyone. You need help from your DH (who sounds as if he too is suffering from the lack of attention - but dammit he's an adult and should get over it!) and you are not getting it.

Your DS will be fine. I think all of us who have more than 1 child knows how torn you feel in the first 2 or 3 months. But it really is over so quickly. He is old enough to feel helpful and that he is the big brother. You can put her in her pram and ask him to push her back and forward for you. You can let him help you wipe her bottom/ put the nappy in the bin etc etc. He can help with bath time.

Can you get a sling for your DD - lots of mums on here swear by them as a method for getting their hands free again.

I think you need to sit down tonight with your DH and tell him exactly how you feel. Tell him specifically what you do and don't want him to do. Sometimes men are not too good at following general requests (e.g. I need you to help more) but they will follow specific things (e.g. I need you to get DS up in the morning and give him his breakfast, I need you to put the washing on, take DD out for a long walk so that I can spend bedtime alone with DS, and the don'ts I don't want you to criticise me in front of DS and DD, I don't want you to leave DD longer than xmins before pciking her up).

Sorry I've rambled on but I do think it is important you don't start thinking you are depressed when in reality your feeling down because you are not and never can be superwoman!

Well said soapbox !!!

Hi Arabella,
I should imagine the majority of mums out there Know exactly what you are going through. I too remember the sheer exhaustion I felt when I brought number two home. I also felt bad about not being able to give number 1 as much attention. But now as time has gone on I know that number 1 has got so much from having no 2 around. My dd is now 6 and my ds is 3. They play together and keep each other company...tonight my ds has gone to bed in one of his sister's nighties...they both think it's a hoot. I felt bad at how my relationship with my first born changed when my ds came along. I was less patient, shouted more easily just to make sure things got done, didn't have as much time to do things with her, but she has got so much from having her brother around that her "loss" is not that great. The other thing to remember too is that no child can expect as much attention in real life as a mum usually gives to her first born...so starting now is no bad thing as at school and throughout life he will never be just the number one.
As for you...now that's more difficult!!! You're pooped, you're still recovering from the birth, you're trying to keep ds and dh happy. It is hard SO every day, even, if it's just for 5 to 10 minutes have something for YOU...just so you remember you exist. Have a bar of chocolate and sit down and eat it, have a bubble bath, read one article in a magazine. ANYTHING but have some you time. Just 5 to 10 mins EVERY day. It does get easier, honest it does. I had NO help from anyone, in fact I never have had with either child. Both my parents are dead and my MIL is a chocolate frying pan. My sis and bro live miles away, so I understand how whacked and unsupported you feel. But it DOES get easier. The sling idea is good. Going to the park all 3 of you is good so ds can have fun and dd sleeps? and you are OUT of the house. If you can afford to get in some help, do.
Does ds go to playschool? Get him enrolled...it'll be great for him.
Just take each day as it comes, some will be good some will be so bad you'll feel like running away...but the good thing about us girls is that we are bloody brilliant and YOU can do it.
I'm thinking about you.Keep trogging on Arabella. You can do it!!

Oh forgot to mention...summer is coming and that makes life so much easier for you all. DS can play out and you can pop dd in pram without all the fuss of wrapping her up, the weather will make you and your dh feel better too.
Try and focus on some of the positives just to help you get through.

Hi Arabella,
I am just a little ahead of you - ds is 16 weeks, dd is 2.5. yes it is an absolutely exhausting confusing guilty worrying time BUT it quickly starts getting better. What has changed already is; ds can hold his head up & is stronger, so you don't need 2 hands to hold him, he can smile and laugh, so is beter amusement for dd, and doesn't mind being put down because the world is interesting to him. Also his pattern of sleep/wake/feed is more established so i can plan days a bit better to make sure dd gets time focused on her. dd has adjusted, I think she cannot really remember a time when ds was not around, although she is still quite whingy & stroppy she is also very affectionate and protective towards him. you are very nearly there - hold on for about 4 weeks and it will really start to seem possible.
i would back up all the other tips, especially about enlisting the help of ds to make him feel important. when you have to divide your attention, basically i tend to favour elder child - reason being she knows what she is missing and a baby does not. get safe places to put the baby down all over the house (ie just a cushion to wedge her in for a few minutes) so feet with shoes on can't come near her even accidentally. It's probably not feasible to get your ds set up with a nursery etc at the moment if he doesn't already go, so go out to a mum & toddler group - the other parents will help you, and will hold ds or dd if necessary while you can play with elder ds or feed/change etc. music group worked well for us, it is dd's special time and ds sits happily in his car seat watching it all.
3 suggestions concerning dh; can you agree with him that at weekends he does something special with ds regularly eg swimming, park or whatever? Also on nights when my dh is home he gives our ds a bottle so that I can read books with dd and put her to bed - can you do the same except for the 3 days, when perhaps he can phone ds to say a special goodnight? thirdly, can he take over the night shift at least for ds, presumably you are feeding dd (bottle or breast) at night but not ds?
on the 3 days, I expect you might do this already, but can you deliberately not try to do anything else at all except keep the 3 of you alive?! what i mean is, have ready made food in the freezer, don't expect to do any washing or cleaning at all, and so on - just get through it.

I have to admit that what is emerging for us is a set of compromises. I regret that I can't give either child the attention that I would like to give them, and I have certainly had moments of wondering why i had a second and felt resentful. however i know they both get enough attention and care, and they will have a relationship with each other which hopefully will be supportive all their lives. It is also getting lots more enjoyable, although still totally exhausting.
good luck arabella, it really will start to change for the better quite soon. meanwhile as long as both the children are safe and fed, they will pull through ok. it's amazing how much more quickly the time passes than with first child. let us know how it goes

Hi Arabella2

Hugs! I know what you are going through. I have ds1 who is 2.4years and ds2 who is nearly 6 months. It's tough isn't it, juggling between the two and trying to keep house and everything else running smoothly. Don't beat yourself up over things. (Easier said than done, I know).

Yesterday, I spent half an hour writing an open letter (aka rant) to my dp (which I'll probably not give him), trying to explain how I felt at being cr*p at everything - house being a tip, total exhaustion etc etc. Made me feel abit better and able to carry on yesterday. Also helped clarify things in my own mind when I do eventually tackle various issues.

I spotted marthamoo mentioned Homestart. I've not got any experience of them personally, but understand that you get help from someone on a regular basis - could be worth considering.

I think that fellow mumsnetters here have offered some fab advice (which I will also be studying closely) and you know that you have support via this thread - we can all support each other. Keep posting and hang in there!

arabella2, huge sympathy from me. My dd was 20 months when ds was born, they're 8 and 28 months now.

I think the advice about the sling is excellent, mine got me through the first 4 months, people used to joke they'd only seen the top of ds's head and his toes popping out! But it was a life saver for me, allowing me to spend more time with dd and touch her more whilst allowing ds to be 'held' (I personally couldn't leave my 5 week old to cry, just carried him round constantly).

It really does get better as the baby gets older and can do more for itself. I realised how much earlier this month when both of mine got a really nasty virus which meant they both wanted carrying round, ds wanted feeding every 2 hours and I felt like I'd gone back in time to those difficult newborn days.

My dh works shifts and lots of nights/weekends and I sometimes go and stay with my parents and I know exactly how you feel, it can be nice but then it starts to grate and the unpacking when you get back just seems like another massive job to do.

2 things I did in the early days, I got my ironing done, costs about £8 per week (I'm not in the SE though, don't know where you are) and had the lawn mowed (£7 per fortnight). We don't have that much cash to be honest but these two things saved my sanity and allowed me that bit more time to do other things; dh was also revising for an exam for the first 6 months of ds's life so I felt as if I was a single parent in lots of ways.

Luckily my dh (when I saw him!) was really supportive of how I parented. I don't really know what to say to you regarding your dh. It is certainly not your fault that a 5 week old baby wants to be carried though, it's perfectly normal!

Hope things get better for you.

XX

Morning Arabella. How are you feeling today? Whacked , exhausted, fed up but still hanging on in there. Atta girl..you'll all be fine just keep plod plod plodding on. Every mountain has a summit...you'll reach it one day!!!

Arabella
I'd have posted on this before if I'd seen earlier. I know exactly how you feel - I found the first few weeks with two incredibly hard. Similar gap to you too. You have had some good advice here about coping with two children - for me it really did feel like just getting through the day with the two of them for the first couple of months and giving myself a cheer for achieving that. I often mention Homestart in my posts as being a great support for parents - it's an army of volunteers who will come and give you a hand with whatever you need - for you it might be just holding the baby while you have some time with your son. Please contact them - it sounds like you really need some help.

I haven't read anyone elses posts but just wanted to say it gets fantastic. Mine are 19 months apart, the begining was very hard but now it has paid off. I am so pleased i had them so close together and got the hard work over with instead of starting again now. They are like twins, they are the best of friends, they entertain each other constantly and i think i probably have an easier time having two. I get some space.

I just wanted to add my support and say I remember feeling the same - my dd and ds are 23 mo apart and ds was quite a demanding baby (still is at 18 mo) and dd was an active toddler who dropped her midday nap as soon as ds came home from hospital (or so it seemed). DH works long hours and rarely has whole weekends off. It does get better as others have said. I remember vividly 2 events where I really snapped with the children and felt such a failure and resentful that dh was not there to help more. I felt I was trying to please everyone and failing and this made be miserable. I think getting out more helped me as the spring/summer arrived and then dd got a nursery place and ds got his "me" time. They now play together well (sometimes) and are a joy to watch and those dark memories are fading. Lots of hugs to you.

Thanks for all your answers, and yes we should set up a support thread (well, I suppose that's what this is). Forgive me if I don't mention names of who said what but I really appreciate your thoughts.
I knew about Homestart and I think I will contact them. We are going to ask the girl who cleans to come more often so that should be a help. Then I think I feel kind of ready to have some kind of structure to the day and so I'm going to make a plan of what we do when (which is what ds and I did before I got really heavily pregnant and knackered).
To be fair to dh, he does a lot with ds already... what I don't like is how critical he can be with me... It upsets me that he seems to think that in some ways I am neglecting ds (who has been even more difficult around his little sister over the past few days).
It's true that some days are okay and some are bad and lots of moments are good even... It's just hard to "lower" your expectations to being only able to do a few things on certain days so the house is a tip etc... Dh and I arguing is certainly upsetting ds... He wants to go to any other house apart from ours because I reckon the mess and stressed out atmosphere must be getting to him.
This Sunday, Monday and Tuesday I am going to stay with MIL again but I am going to try and sort something else out for the next time as I feel a little trapped there if I stay any longer than about 2 days and 1 night. She is great in lots of ways but after a while she can get bossy as I said before - it's not like your own Mum where you can kind of say what you think. Just now I rang her and to ask her could I go and stay - and bring "troubles" with me (intended to be a joke) and she kind of laughed and said yes and then said they weren't trouble but only babies. At which point I feel like crying - as if she is criticising me for not being loving enough or something. When I do really love both of them, it's just that it has come as a shock to me how hard everything has been - especially ds being so upset I suppose. She (MIL) kind of has this slightly superior thing where she will sometimes tell me things about my own kids which annoys me... My Dad does it too but with him I totally ignore it .
The sling idea is a good one and I do sometimes put dd in it - dh has been criticising that too but I think even he is realising the inevitability of it.
I live in Willesden in North West London, if anybody is close by it would be great to meet up - I've decided going out is the answer to a lot!
I know in the long run ds will be pleased he has a sister (at least I hope so!). He doesn't go to nursery as yet - he really needs something like that for his fast expanding brain but now would be the wrong time - maybe in a couple of months we could start him off slowly. At the moment I am going to go back to all the mother and baby groups plus be more organised about meeting up with friends. It is good about summer coming as the park is great.
Also to be fair to dh, his business is not doing well and he is very stressed out about work... Also, he works from home a lot of the time and has not been able to do much because of looking after ds.
I'll write more later as both "troubles" have woken up.

Arabella2... I'm in north london... Barnet/Muswell Hill. If you ever fancy a chat, I'd love to meet, with ds in tow. We are having a little meet up on 11th in Muwell Hill... you'd be very welcome!What do you think?

Arabella,

just wanted to say hi and that here's another mum who knows what you're going through. I adored life when dd1 was a baby, I thought babies were the best thing ever, that my life was some fairy tale, etc etc (I was probably a right old pain in the arse) and then dd2 came along. Shock doesn't begin to describe it. Bursting into tears every day; feeling I'd ruined my life; feeling guilty every way I turned and no matter what I did. It can be hell and you really have my sympathy.

Some random thoughts: If it's really bad try talking to your health visitor - my gp was useless but the HV was a lifesaver who recognised that I was borderline PND and came to visit me at home once a week for about a month. She stayed for a cup of tea and was just fab. I'm convinced I owe her my sanity. Another lifesaver was tea at the gym. Sounds a bit daft but on bad days I'd take them out specifically for tea - my gym cafe had space for DD1 to run around; cheap food (cheese on toast for about £1.25 I think); I didn't have to clear up the mess and on a good day I'd get chatting to another mum. If you've got somewhere like that I certainly found it well worth the hassle of getting out of the house and the £1.25. I agree with everyone else about support - cleaners for sure, and if you can find a play group or a childminder or friend that will have ds for a few hours it can be a real help. You can give it a positive spin - his bit of grown-up life, his independence from you; something exciting that he does that dd doesn't; Some people swear by internet shopping. Stress with dh is entirely normal too and you'd have to be some pair of angels to not experience it. Does he know how you're feeling and that he's upset you? Talk to him - he needs to know. Summer is coming and it will get easier. Look at some of the cheery threads here about cute things kids do, toddler obsessions and swearing were ones that made me smile. another stream of conscious posting but I really need to go to bed!

thanks hatter for your message
ixel, I would like to come along on the 11th - however last Friday my ds was in contact with a friend of his who came out in a chicken pox rash the next day so I am not sure at this point whether he has caught it or not - apparently the spots show 7 to 21 days after infection and you are most infectious 1 to 2 days before they show... Maybe we could meet at a later stage when either he has obviously not been infected (which I really hope!!!) or he has got over the chicken pox?
Anyway, back from MIL's yesterday and I have to say that being slightly irritated at her sometimes superior attitude was 10 times better than the chaos that still reigns here at home - in the house and between me and dh! I'm thinking of going to live there .
Dh seems to think I am neglecting ds when I really am not - I'm just trying to cope with everything as well as feeling totally exhausted.