can 4 year olds bully?

[carriesmummy]

I remember reading something at nursery that nursery kids can't bully but wasn't sure when it was considered it could start.

Dd has slightly asd traits in that she is very rule bound and maybe slightly socially odd (difficult to explain how). At school she has complained about some other kids a bit but nothing too specific (though she doesn't really tell me much).

Anyway in Jan she started a dance/drama type class and a few weeks ago a classmate from school joined.

This girl has every week been really mean to my daughter. Pushing her out the way, taking her props, not letting her line up and saying mean things (my dd tells me but obviously I'm not close enough to hear).

I watch from the alcove but can't really intervene. The other girls mum pretends not to notice. The teacher in the class doesn't really notice much but she is very busy as class 14 and one teacher.

To me this looks very clear like bullying. I have told dd to be more assertive saying don't touch me leave me alone, give that back etc. And to complain to teacher but dd too shy to say anything to teacher :(

I am thinking dd we leave the class at easter. This is so sad for me to watch. Should I speak to the teacher? Is 4 too young for the other girl to be bullying her?

I don't know. A child at my DS' school has quite troubling behaviour which looks a bit like bullying. But not really sure if they know what it means to humiliate another person at this age.

It isn't really humiliating her just repeatedly seeking her out and being nasty to her - I thought that was what bullying was?

I think that they do - watch the secret life of 4 year olds on more4. My Dd can be horrible, but equally I have seen her on the receiving end too. The key is to always challenge when it happens - not by a full telling off, but by mentioning that this is not nice and getting them to say sorry. This is what the nursery staff and or we as parents do. I have seen other parents do this too. Slightly awkward situation you have though - if you are worried maybe say out loud Dd are you Okay in class which might prompt her to complain. If it is too much though I suggest you move classes - another teacher may have a better handle on this and you might get more luck with the other parents.

I don't know. But I do think that managing this is within the teacher's remit, and you should have a quiet word and point it out. Then reassess after she's had a chance to manage the situation.

I will try having a quiet word but think the teacher might not have the energy to sort it out. It is tricky as I suppose at school they have to be involved in pastoral care etc but thought that in out of school clubs it is more about just instructing the activity unless the kids are really uncooperative. the teacher is young and trendy and and I think has not much experience of children (the club is the youngest group of a larger club including adults).

Previous schools that I have worked in define bullying as doing something to hurt another, physically or emotionally, "several times on purpose". Therefore, I think an average 4 year old (for want of a better term) can bully others.
The argument against it in a nursery environment is that the children are not yet emotionally developed enough to understand that they are being cruel or unkind.

No. I don't think that they bully. I think bullying is completely intentional and knowing how they make the other person feel. I think that is quite a grown up thing to do and I've never met a young child who was truly capable of this. I think as adults, we perceive that they are bullying because we would know that it was bullying if it was us doing or receiving it. However, children can be very mean and self absorbed. They all learn things at different rates and this includes social skills and how to be a friend or how not to be a friend but still be amicable. This needs to be taught so although not specifically 'bullying' it does not mean that she should not be pulled up on it. The teacher has a duty of care to help both your dd and this other girl, as does her mother and yourself and (dare I suggest it) your daughter by learning to say that it is not ok and staying out of her way when possible.

Maybe other child is used to getting own way at home and not used to proper discipline? Speak to teacher and ask if she can step in abit more as its obviously not your place to tell someone elses child off