Smacking

[MarcoMum]

Just seen a BBC report claiming:

Comments on the British parenting website, Mumsnet, were almost uniformly opposed, with many readers describing it as "abhorrent", "bullying" and "inexcusable". "Does anyone smack their children anymore?" one asked. "And if so, is anyone brave enough to admit it, to explain why?"

I wanted to see if this could be possible on a responsible site.... and thankfully found a varied level of opinion...... which of course suits the variety that exists in our species.

For myself, I view the people who view "the loving discipline of children" as being 'blinkered individuals', who wish to impose their viewpoint on others...... even to the extent of calling for laws to support their position :(

I speak from the position of having brought up my son, coached 'kids rugby' for a number of years, and run a Table Tennis club mainly for the kids (now youths) of the village, for the past ten years.

What I've learned is that kids flourish best when they can rely upon basic rules.
Games are better, when everybody gets a fair chance...... even to a point where a word in the ear 'to go easy' on a lesser mortal..... introduces 'reflection' and works wonders for group morale.

.... But it's all about consistency from the get go.
(when we get it wrong from time to time; an apology is great, and the kids always accept failure, even from adults...... it's part of life.)

So smacking......
I think I smacked my son no more that 4 times (I can remember 3 occasions), up to the age of 5 - after that, his brain was sufficiently developed to understand rationale, along with knowledge that, to live with people, there are limits as to how one behaves. The two, going hand in hand.

In effect..... prior to, and during the formation of the concious brain, for my son, it was necessary to indicate that certain behaviour was not acceptable..... and words couldn't do it.

Incident 1 - Tantrum in the shower
This was dangerous.... it was very slippery (he was close to 3).
He got a very suitable whack on the backside.
It will have hurt.... but no more than all those other falls and scrapes that are part of learning 'what should and should not be done'.
...... We had no more tantrums afterwards....... None!
Note: Mum did what was correctly required, by being lovingly concerned about the smack....... but agreed that not only was the situation dangerous, but that we didn't want our child to believe that tantrums are an okay way of life.
(how many kids have we seen throwing tantrums, even into their teens?)

Incident 2 - Throwing stones at cars
The first time, he was around 3 1/2 years - he threw a stone at our car, and smashed the headlamp.
This was big money, that we were short of.
Stupidly, I didn't give him a whack (we are all human).
He got a bollocking, a good explanation on how this hurt us badly, and that one should never throw stones at people or cars.

What a waste of time that was......... he was just too young to fully understand.
Clearly the words and bollocking just didn't have an impact, because....
.... six months later.... right in front of me.... he threw a stone at a passing car.
By the time the driver had braked and slammed it into reverse, my sons trousers were on the way down..... and he got two good ones as the driver screeched to a halt.
On seeing this, he didn't even bother getting out of the car - thankfully he just drove away, presumably understanding that the kid was at least learning that 'this wrong'.
Never again did he throw stones at cars!

Incident 3 - Hitting a child at the bus stop
He would be around 4, waiting for the school bus.
It was trousers down again and two decent whacks (with the words ringing in the ear: "you don't do that").
All the mums were sympathetic...... one admitted that she thought that she wouldn't have been able to do that.....
..... AND NOTE: one of her kids was a right little bully, that made life hell for my son, for two years!!!!! (he was two years older).

(Maybe there were only 3 occasions when I delivered a smack)

Did it stop him from getting into trouble?
No....... on on two other occasions, he was forced to go to somebody... knock on their door, and apologise for doing something daft..... and doing a bit of sweeping up for them as punishment/compensation - just kids being kids........ but beyond the age of smacking.

So how did it turn out for him?

Well, I can tell you as a fact, that I've had more people than I can remember, actually stop me in the street to tell me 'what a great kid is Oliver' and 'what a good job I'd done, bringing him up' (wonderful!)

As for our relationship (he's nearly 17 now)... we kiss each other at least twice a day, and we do so many things together.
He still gets bollockings....... he still needs guidance...... annoyance is always explained.
It's now mostly down to his natural age to challenge his Dad...... it's life.... we discuss it, and we both understand what is happening (he still challenges me LOL :) ).

Thank God he's started to beat me at ping pong (as I'd told him he would)....... but also TG I'm still able to beat him...... though for how long

Moral of the story
Don't wait to start guiding your kids.
It begins when they begin gaining conciousness....... and it doesn't stop.
Don't wake up one day and ask "why don't my kids listen to me?"

If they are already 7 ..... then it's touch and go (possibly too late, but worth trying).
If they are 9, and you think you can jump in....... my guess is that you've blown it, and you'd better hope you've got good youth club leaders, who'll step into the void.

From the beginning: play with them, educate them, and guide them...... even if it means punishing them....... but it has to be from the beginning.

...... and then they'll go and leave you (OMG)!
It's not happened yet for me......... but it's coming.

At least, I'll have no regrets.
I'll have done the best I could.

....... and smacking?
That was just a minor parenting tool, as used by most species, to help ease the child forward into life.

As for banning it?
For me..... it verges on the 'abuse of children', preventing good parental guidance, advocated by people who never had need to use it (lucky them), or by people who will later regret their lack of interest, as they reap the seeds that they have sown ;)

All I really have to say is the idea of pulling down a little boy's trousers and whacking his bare bottom makes me feel sick. And no amount of unusual circumstances or justification is going to make that okay. Ever.
This too.

yes. I believe what I posted. I believe that any parent that chooses to hurt their child then tell people who don't hurt theirs that they are wrong, is twisted.
we may have a different view of things but you have no right to tell me what I am doing is wrong. you do not know me and you do not know my children. and no I don't know you or your son either but at least mine have never thought it ok to throw stones, and I have never had to physically harm them to prove I am boss.

Let's wrap this up shall we?
Somebody can have the last word if they want...... but I started the thread, so really, it's down to me to close it.
I don't want to end on a bad note.

I appreciate culturesucksdownwars ever improving attempts at transferring 'the thinking'.
I believe it's probably too hard, when 'the thinking' is so entrenched.
My perspective is based upon a whole range of parenting options.
The posters on this thread are clearly against this.
That's how it goes.

LittleLionMansMummy: you said what you said..... and I responded.... in a nice way.
Let's not go over it again.

catkind: Honestly, not everybody has these hang ups..... I say that sincerely.... nothing more to say.

BertieBotts: I can't leave without reference to the pleasurable post made.
Very funny...... very true :)

So it's goodbye from me.
Shame I leave with a bad taste in the mouth..... but you know that is the case....... nothing to be done now.
I wish you all the best in bringing up your kids.

:)

Fin

Shame you aren't interested in actually answering my questions I response to your increasingly meaningless posts. If you could manage to respond clearly to simply-put questions then there might actually be the possibility of discussion and a better understanding of other people's viewpoints. Good luck with working on that in the future, I'm sure you'll get there if you keep trying.

*in response

No not everybody. Some do though. You can't know your child isn't one of them.

I don't doubt you meant well by smacking. I do doubt that it was necessary or right.

When someone comes along and thinks they have the recipe for perfect parenting on the basis of their one perfect child, I think a lot of people have a little chuckle.

Ok I know you want to wrap up this thread and I fully understand that.

A few summers ago I was driving along a quiet little road and a small boy through a stone at my car. I swerved to avoid it and then turned the car around to confront him.

He panicked and ran into his home. I parked up and went to the front door to tell his parents what he had just done.

They went mad and shouted at him and apologised to me and made him apologise to me and told him how stupid he had been and I could have crashed the car and we left on happy terms (the parents and I) as he was still cowering.

Had they hit him in any way I would have been appalled and mortified.

Yes I was angry he threw a stone at me while I was driving but the look on his face was enough for me to know he understood why I was angry.

His parents took appropriate action and that was that.

I meant 'threw' a stone.

I was beaten with my dad's weightlifting belt , shoes, hair brushes, both by my mum and dad when I was a small child. I was a terrified child. Terrified of my dad and felt physically sick when he would come home from work. I now battle with confidence, authority, confidence and social situations to the extent that it has almost ruined every good opportunity in my career. I love my mum and dad and have light heartedly mentioned " remember you used to smack me with your slipper?" To be told that it never happened and that I was imagining it. I have two wonderful children, who are amazing, talented, clever and confident. You know why? Because they're not terrified of the two people who they look to for protection and love. Please don't think it's morally right to take a child's pants down and smack him! I mean what the check?!

Yes I said what I said and you responded by telling me we should be worried about our son's behaviour and mull over how to deal effectively with it (presumably by smacking). However I thought I should point out why I believe you are wrong, as is my right, which may help you to be less patronising with others in future. You may think your interaction with others on here is nice, but they come across as somewhat passive-aggressive (what else is it to appear to take someone's point before sticking the boot in about their children's behaviour and their parenting style/ choices?) But as you say, let's not go over it again and it's your right to flounce off and wrap up the thread you started. Good luck in your future relationships.

I was smacked a lot by my mum....

While i don't think it did much harm it certainly didn't do any good.

I find smacking as a punishment massively hypocritical. I'll never forget witnessing a mother on a bus trying to discipline 2 young boys (say 5&7yrs) smacking the older boy on the hand, and with each smack shouting 'Don't.smack.your.brother!'

errm :/

pot kettle mum! :/

Oh, hi Marco. How's it going? Are you still beating your son... at ping pong?

I hear what you're saying Marco, however your approach is all wrong with this view especially after 10 days of no response from you

You have an opinion, fine, accepted.
The majority of people do not agree with your opinion nor can they relate to children being smacked as a 'good idea' even if occasionally.

I could spew out plenty of behavioural studies supporting my rationale for parenting the way I do but quite frankly I can't be bothered; your approach to this forum is all wrong and insulting in many ways.

Perhaps stick to the gaming threads if they're so good at being moderated.

It's the first time I've been referred to as a troll! Or a bad parent, for that matter. Which leads me to surmise that you probably just bring out the very worst in people with your patronising tone.

I'd say smacking is a reasonable parenting tool if used correctly.

Hello Wilko. I would say that smacking is not a useful parenting tool, and is counterproductive at best and actively harmful at worst.

The thread HAD died. You resurrected it for no reason, I presume, other than your own ego.

Mumsnet is not a moderated forum. You can report any posts which you feel are inappropriate and staff will take a look. Personal attacks, trolling (and some other things) are not permitted. You can also report your own post if you would like a direct response from mumsnet, I'm sure they will furnish your inbox with an email, they always have for me.

I've discussed many, many times on here alternative strategies. There is an advanced search up there, if you particularly want the pearls of my advice. Of course I'm not claiming I am any more qualified than any other poster. In any case, I'm not really interested in doing so on this thread because TBH your posting style is bizarre and does not make me feel as though you are open to discussion at all. It feels like "Ladies! Listen to my manly approach." If you want to have a discussion, then post on an existing discussion thread (of which there were at least two running when you started this) or start a new one, brief intro, overview of relevant information, query. What you have posted is more like a blog. Although I suggest if you do decide to start writing one, to look up the basic usage of ellipsis.

Or perhaps the more likely scenario is that you are a perv who was hoping others would share tales of how they disciplined their own children without pants. Either way, I am out. Look forward to the MNHQ response if they do decide to contribute to the thread.

Oh get off your high horse Bertie..... perv....... do you really honestly think that I'm a perv?

Have you actually read any of the posts?

Sorry..... I've been busy..... but the posts don't disappear.
er..... oh yes they do.

I don't think anything I said, came even close to bizarre, or pervy behaviour.
It's kind of strange to even mention these things in relationship to what I've posted.

In fact..... the thread had moved on, to questioning the attitude of forum members..... but that post was deleted.

The simple fact is...... and the proof is born out, in all the posts above....
.... there, for anybody to read.... even down to the very last post..... where apparently I'm a perv, for bringing up my son in a loving environment, and discussing that methodology.

However, I guess the last post says it all.... it wraps up all the abusive remarks made.

This thread long ago left the issue of 'good parenting' behind, and couldn't move on to questioning the abusive behaviour of many of the poster here.
The deletion of my post, that in no way, breached the talk guidelines showed this to be the case.

I tried to end this post previously, but people kept piling in...... like as if it was going to make their ideas right.

Personally, I believe that you need to remove the blinkers, and look for the best solutions for your 'our' kids.

From what I've seen here..... I don't hold out much hope.

I'll look in on any responses to this last post...... but I'm not going to respond again...... so please be abusive as you wish :)

Signed off
Apparently as the perv who maltreated his son (what?)