attitude of 6yr old effecting 2yr old sibling- how to cope??

[Leahmummy1630]

I need some advice. I have two daughters, aged 6 and 2. The youngest has gone into terrible twos but it worse with the attitude of my eldest! It is constant lip from her, and ignoring what I am saying or asking her. I get sulking and strops, constant huffing noises that is driving me insane! Because i loose the will with her and she speaks to me like I am nothing my 2yr old is now picking up on it. She will shout at her older sister, and is repeating the way she says. I do realise a lot of it is me, and the way I respond to my eldest doesn't help the situation. I need some advice on how to deal with these situations and how to keep my cool and not show that it bothers me, as i realise they are both copying how i respond. I want them to be close and to get along, but it seems they spend all their time arguing and me just pulling my haior out :(

A few words of advice:

• Parenting is a long haul. Sometimes it doesn't like anything is going in, but it is and it will show in years to come.
• Parenting is hard work with unpredictable results. Just because you are a good parent, and have 2 angelic children, doesn't mean the 3rd one will be the same! So much depends on the children's characters too.

Having said that:

• If you do not model self control, they will not either.
• You need to train them, not just discipline them (ie. not just constant telling off). Training involves talking to them and explaining why when they are calm, and rewarding the behaviour which you are after.

Here is where I would start:

• Identify one MAIN problem in each child and work on that. With the 6 year old, it could be "doing what you're asked before the 3rd time asking" and with the the 2yo it could be "no shouting". You talk to them individually when they are calm NOT in the middle of an argument. You have rewards and punishments set out, so when the 6yo does what you ask then she gets loads of praise and when you have to ask 3 times, she gets a consequence such as no TV that day. You don't need to argue about the consequence or threaten that it's coming. The warning is in the initial chat you've chat. You do not need to raise your voice.

• If things get out of control, everyone goes to separate rooms for a bit to calm down. The 2yo needs time out, the 6yo needs to go to her room.

I've also noticed that when I consciously make an effort to enjoy my kids and be more positive with them, their behaviour tends to improve. Try doing that as well as having a more controlled, planned approach to bad behaviour. And don't try and fix everything at once, it doesn't work!

Thank you for your advice! I will take that all into account and try and work from it. Sometimes i just get so over whelmed with it all, i loose my train of thought. I dont want my children to grow up thinking I am a shouty mum, because that is not what i want. I want more control in them and myself. I want them to respect me and know I do all that I can. My eldest is from a previous partner which does make it harder because he has always been so soft on her and gives her everything she wants. I dont speak to him as there is a court order which he has to obide to. My fiance deals with him which is a lot of my shoulders. My fiance who is my youngest's father is very supportive who treats them both equally the same, they dont behave like this around him, it's only with me, and that is so frustrating. He has been in the eldests life since she was 2. IF he has to raise his voice they both stop straight away, but for me they carry on and on and on :-(

Do you threaten stuff and then don't do it? ('We're going to leave if you do that again' and then don't actually leave). It sounds like a lack of respect (which does happen if you lose control or don't carry out on threats).

Definitely have a good chat with the eldest when she is calm and good, and then start the treats and punishments. Also have some really nice, snuggly times, maybe at bedtime. Lots of 'I love you' and cuddles. Probably more important for the older one. Makes it easier to come down hard on the bad behaviour if they are feeling loved by you in other ways.

My situation is the same as you OP. Two dds the same ages and the eldest isn't DHs but the youngest is.

DD2 will occasionally copy DD1s strops, and copy me shouting at DD1 when I have to. Though it sounds like its not so bad in our house.

It is difficult to manage the input from my ex, as it means DD1 isn't having the same childhood as DD2 even though they are both having childhood at the same time.

Maybe you need to be firmer with them, without being shouty? If you can try to calm down a bit I am sure they will follow your lead.

What kind of behaviour do you find yourself shouting at? Maybe posters can give you alternative ways of managing specific behaviour.

I think i threaten too much so it's almost a case now that she knows it coming. yes sometimes I don't follow through with it, and i know that is where I am going wrong too. I feel I need to start from scratch, before its too late. The youngest is at good age where she wont know my previous parenting ways, but my eldest is still young enough to learn the news way. I just want to be a better parent all round, in myself and to my children. I am willing to take any advice I can and to try out new strategies, so our household is a happier place to be. Is it good to start a time out spot my my 2yr old now? Sometimes I feel that because my 6yr doesnt see the 2yr get punished a lot, its making her behaviour worse. On the occasions she does, she will always come up to me and say 'I'm being a good girl, aren't I mummy? I love you lots, do you want any help?'

sliceofsoup-

It's when she doesn't listen to what i ask her, or if she winds up DD2 for no reason then laughs about it! If I tell her something for instance what were having for dinner, its like the end of the world if she doesn't want it, huffs and puffs and its such a scene. If we dont go out for the she will tell me'this is the worse day ever, I am not having fun your boring' not only does that frustrate me but it hurts too. I work part time and sometimes when I'm home its nice not to do anything. DD1 is at school anyway but this could be after school or a sunday.
It all goes to pot when I shout, i feel I loose control of myself and the situation, and if anything I come away feeling worse and upset because I know I should of handled the situation better :-(

My eldest is exactly the same with the guilt trips over boring days etc. Please believe me, you cannot take it personally. I hear all about how when her daddy gets a good job he will take her out every day and similar crap. I let it wash over me, and tell her that we cannot go out everyday, some days can be boring etc etc.

We have a star system, every day she can earn up to 2 stars. One for before school and one for after school. If she doesn't get a star I explain exactly why in a calm way, and if she does get the star I praise her for it. I keep the "prizes" easy to achieve so she stays interested, but some days she doesn't get a star.

Do you think she is maybe behaving this way because she wants your attention? Maybe you could make some time that is just for you and her.

My DDs generally get on well with each other, but I think that is because they both get one on one time with me. DD2 when DD1 is at school, and I make a conscious effort to do things with DD1 on our own.

I would be a shouty mum and I did used to be, if I didn't work so hard on not being. I still do shout now and again, but its much less now.

I think if you are beginning to lose it, some time out is good for everyone.

Never threaten and don't carry it out. Even if you regret the threat! But it is best not to threaten at all, and just have things worked out in advance for specific 'trigger' points. Eg. If my kids don't behave in church (they're only in there for about 20 mins, and that is mostly singing), then they don't get biscuits after. They know in advance and we have a chat about how they need to behave beforehand. Of course, you can't always do that, but you could say: if you annoy dd on purpose, you will need to go up to your room for 10 minutes. She knows - then when she does it, the consequence kicks in.

But, I would work on her doing what you ask of her first. Not in a robotic way, jumping immediately, but you shouldn't need to ask more than twice with a minute or so in between. First time should be a nice ask, "Can you get your shoes on, please." Next time, "Shoes!" Third time. "This is the third time I am asking you, so you won't be able to.....put your shoes on."

sliceofsoup- I will start a star system as that could work well in our house. DD1 noramlly has a hot drink and movie in her bedroom a couple of times a week, but we could make that more of a treat than a usual thing. There is a lot of things I am going to change to make everything happier. What sort of prizes do you give for the stars? Do you give the prizes at the end of the week or everyday?

Merrymarigold- What things would you suggest as a punishment for not listening? Because she doesn't seem to listen to me at all, i'm concerned she will loose out on everything and it wont make any difference to her. She does swimming lessons on a thursday after school while I'm at work, then goes back to her friends house for play and tea. Could that be something I could take away for that week if she is really naughty?

I base the prizes on the amount of stars. So her tablet had been confiscated for bad behaviour, (we had a hellish few weeks in january with her) and once she got 5 stars she got the tablet back. 10 stars is another prize, she chose to get a packet of sweets, I would have preferred a magazine instead of sweets, but she earned the stars so I let her choose. She only got to 10 last night, and shes at her dads today overnight, so I will take her tomorrow after school to choose sweets.

I am kind of on the hop with it though. I have told her when she gets to 25 I will take her and her friend to the cinema. But I am not sure what 15 and 20 will be. Something small just.

Personally I wouldn't remove the swimming, but I would remove the tea at her friends if she was really really bad.

I tend not to punish for not listening. I used to. But I have come to the conclusion that DD1 is just a dreamer and I need to accept that that is her personality. So now that I have accepted that I will need to give constant reminders its easier to cope. In what way do you mean she doesn't listen? If DD1 deliberately does the opposite of what I say, she won't get the star. But general things like faffing about when she should be putting her shoes on I now deal with by reminding every few minutes.

I have 2 dreamers. That's why they do get the second reminder, and then they know it needs to be done otherwise...it is so frustrating to say something a billion times and feel invisible and then end up shouting just to be 'heard'. It was/ is the biggest thing which gets to me, so I know I need to deal with it before we all go a bit mad! I know this does not happen in school, so if they can respond to a teacher (usually the first time), they can respond to me certainly the second time.

We have a reward system for getting ready in the morning without me asking or reminding (my kids are 6,6,9). They have a list on their bedroom of what they need to: get dressed, teeth, pack bag, brush hair, coat, shoes. I give them some grace so if I need to remind once that is ok, but they should be aiming to do it alone. It's not like what they need to do ever changes! The reward is a packet of Match Attax or a magazine, some new felt tips, things like that when they manage this for 6 days. It usually takes a week-10 days or so to get something.

Consequences for various bad behaviours (usually hitting or shouting back at me): no computer, going up to bedroom, no wii, no going on my phone, tidying out the car, going to bed with no story, not having some sweets. It will take time to turn it around.

I would use soup's method to start with, so if she does everything asked before 3x of asking before school, she gets a sticker, and everything asked before 3x of asking in the evening she gets another sticker. You could start with it being that way and active defiance (saying 'No' or 'I won't') can have more of a consequence immediately.

Thank you ladies for all your advice! I have taken everything on board and will be starting tomorrow! I have actually printed off our conversation to keep track of what im doing. I am off work tomorrow so could be a good day to start! I will also print off a reward chart.
DD1 is a bit of dreamer, but she does play on it a lot. I find if shes watching something on the tv or ipad and i ask her something she just completely doesnt respond, or i will repeat several times to which she turns around and says 'I heard you the first time' so why doesnt she asnswer me? Its not everytime but i will say its more often than not!

The other thing I learned on a parenting course was to make eye contact if you are asking them to do something, not call from another room. You know they've heard, they know you know. In the case of the TV, I usually stand in front of it. With the ipad, I would say, can you pause it (if it's youtube/ film/ game) and then say, "I need you to switch that off in 5 mins and come and eat." Do give fair warnings if they absorbed in something as it's not really fair to say you need to stop doing that right now.

Sorry, I should have said before, it is not fair to impose a sanction if they genuinely didn't hear you. I am a terrible multi tasker and I always say to dh to check that I have heard him if he's asking me something before he gets all moody that I 'wasn't listening'. So:
a) Do the eye contact
b) If you don't manage that for some reason, then do check she heard the first time. Did you hear what I asked you to do? What was it?
c) Still not done. Then go onto the second chance of asking.