Struggling with 4 year old telling lies. A LOT of lies.

[emmatigywinkle]

Hi, I'm new to mumsnet but I feel my partner and I could really use some advice.

Firstly, he has 2 children with his ex, he has them for 6 days every fortnight, picks them up from school on Friday and drops them off at school the following Wednesday morning. Jack is 6 and Jess is 4. I love them both to the end of the earth. Jack is usually well behaved and causes no problems at all. Jess on the other hand, and I hate to say this, can be a complete nightmare

She will defy us at every turn, even if it is just something small, and I refuse to pander to her. I don't want to teach her that she can always get what she wants. I sometimes feel so harsh but it escalates so quickly. One of us can ask her to pass her something and the next minute she's screaming blue murder and crying her eyes out.

Also, and this is the issue that is really getting to me, is the lying. Now, I know she is only very young, but both myself and my partner have spoke to her about lying and the consequences but she does it again a couple of hours later. She's lied to try and get Jack in trouble, she's lied about doing something I specifically asked her not to do and other numerous things. It's not as if it's a one off. Almost every question we ask her she's lying to us. And it absolutely riles me. I know how horrible that sounds but it really does make me so so angry. I can't remember how my mum and dad taught me and my brother not to lie but I know that it was something that we were taught from being very young. I don't want to be the evil step-mother but I feel this is something we really need to tackle. I just hate how it usually ends in shouting and crying .

Any advice please? Thank you in advance.

I really hope that you have changed the children's names....

Sounds like she's had a lot of upheaval and 4 is still so little.
I wonder if a little bit of pandering and positive attention would be more successful than going down the route of punishing every little thing.

Show her that good behaviour gets rewards.

My youngest is 4 and honestly they are still so little. IIRC this is the age when dc start to tell lies, so try to see it as a development stage rather than naughtiness.

Perhaps your dp needs to talk to his ex so they can work out some strategies for their dd.

And although you say you love them both to the ends of the earth, your love for Jess (and yes, please say these aren't their real names?) isn't exactly shining through.

If I can spot that I'm pretty sure she can too.

I'm sorry, I got a little worked up writing the post. I do love them both, so very much and a lot of the time Jess (yes, names are changed :)) behaves and is very loving but then she just seems to change. I know I've probably not taken the best approach to this but I've never done this before, I've never had a baby and nobody who I know has children or babies so this is really really new to me. Please don't think we're punishing every little thing, we're not. I just feel so out of my depth and I don't know what to try. I want the best for them both, whatever it takes. Really didn't mean to come across as so harsh. This is just so new to me, and I feel like I've been thrown in at the deep end

Also, we do do rewards etc for good behaviour.

Regarding the ex, she doesn't think that communication is needed at all. We had an incident with DD a few weeks ago in which she had a raging temperature, coughing and just really not well, it turned out she had a chest & ear infection. Their mum, really laid into my partner because he'd text her a few times and tried to ring her (she didn't answer) to update her on what was wrong. She said something along the lines of "I don't text you everytime one of them has a sniffle". Also, DD has let slip to me that her mum has told her we can't be friends and has called me a cow and other not too nice names. We're civil with her but getting her to communicate is like getting blood from a stone.

What would happen if she told the truth about doing something you specifically told her not to do? It needs to be better than what would happen if she lied about it, otherwise, she has no reason not to lie. You might even believe the lie, so there's a chance that, if she lies, she can avoid punishment altogether. You might need to control your reaction when she tells you she did something bad.

Right, I'm beginning to think I may not have expressed what I meant to with my original post. I don't fly off the handle, or go mad at her, I would never do that. Firstly, it's very obvious when she's lying. So, because I definitely know she's lying I'll ask her "Did you do (insert whatever here)?" and then she never ever answers, she literally doesn't say a word. She just stares at the ground. I don't ask her in a harsh tone of voice, just like I'd talk to her in everyday conversation. Then I'll ask "Please don't ignore me. I just want you to tell the truth." It's usually at this point when she starts crying. Not a gradual cry but really really sobbing. So I'll le her sit and think for 5 minutes and to calm down, on a good day. Other times she really really screams and then I raise my voice to try and bring her back down a little bit. I know this is probably not the best approach, and this is why I'm asking for help and advice. Eventually, when she's sat and calmed down, she will admit what she's done, say sorry, hugs and kisses and the world is a better place. I would like to point out, because I feel as if I'm coming across like the very harsh, wicked step mum, that I do go off and cry aswell. I don't just tell her off and go off.

However, despite what's happened she will continue to do it. Sometimes the day after, sometimes half an hour after. It's this bit that I'm really struggling with. The repeated telling of lies. I don't want to punish her for every little thing but she's doing it so often.

Hi, I'm new to mumsnet said emmatigywinkle, or it is Tiggywinks982?

Not usually the done thing to change names on the thread as it can then make it hard to follow

Hi,

I understand where your coming from and think its very commendable that you care this much.

I'm afraid i have no sound advice for you (mine can't talk yet!) but perhaps try something reward based? So when she does go quiet and stare at the floor try telling her you're not angry and that if she tells you the truth she 'll get a reward. Then praise, reward and once she seems content gently remind her the thing she did was wrong.

Also it occurs that she could be attention seeking? If she does it alot and over reacts when confronted perhaps it's her way of gaining attention.

Very tricky situation because you don't know what her mum is doing. For example her mum might scoop her up for a cuddle regardless of the lie, equally her mum might shout which is still attention.

Whatever you decide to do be consistent and remember that there's probably a reason behind her porky pies.

Good luck x

If you definitely know she has done something wrong, and you have seen it, rather than relying on the word of the other sibling, I wouldn't give her the opportunity to lie. Just say "I saw you do xyz, please could you say sorry and put it back". When you say every time you ask her a question she lies, maybe don't ask the questions, try "I asked you to do xyz and you haven't so please could you go and do it and when you come back you can have a treat".

The going quiet and looking at the ground could just be because she feels on the spot and doesn't want to get in trouble.

I have some experience with similarly aged siblings, they frequently say "he/she hit me" and quite often they're just trying to get the other one in trouble. We don't make a big deal of it unless we actually see it as it's just part and parcel of sibling squabbles.

Sounds like the children have been through a messy break up at a young age, it's bound to take it's toll.

OP - do you realise you are logged on with two accounts?

This might sound daft, but I am not sure that as stepmothers - I've been one - we are ideally placed to teach morality.

It's also very confusing when children have two separated parents and two houses, and it's different in each place.

It's all confusing for a stepchild if they have some positive feelings towards you, but hear elsewhere that you are bad. How on earth does a small child make sense of that? Why should you be good with a 'bad; person? Maybe your good mother would be cross with you for being good with a bad stepmother. So the good thing would be to be bad.

I think the focus should be on steadily encouraging good behaviour, while trying to understand where the untruths are coming from. One way of looking at is that you stepdaughter would like a different reality. (So would you by the sound of it.)

I'd make less of a big deal of it all. When she says something that doesn't sound correct, I'd be inclined just to say. 'Oh I don't think so.' or 'I'm not quite sure.' Or 'It's possible you've got that a bit wrong' and move on.

A lot of this stuff is just a phase. Not the road to ruin.

Thank you so so much for the advice!

Today there were a few fibs and I took a different approach and it was much calmer. Also, I think we also might have scratched the surface of why she's suddenly started telling so may fibs, so at least that's something aswell.

I forgot to mention that this is quite new for her, and I definitely know now I overreacted to it by worrying so much.

Hopefully it will be something she grows out of, with some guidance obvously.

Again thank you for the advice. Very much appreciated :) x

"Jess is 4" Try and remember that.