Christening/naming ceremony help!

[MrsDowneyJunior]

I've got myself too upset to think logically here. Very long story short DD1 aged 9 lives with her Dad, DD2 is 3 months old and lives with me. DD1 has been told so much bullsh1t about me and is being totally brainwashed, controlled and bullied by her "father". He's almost totally blocked her from me & DD2 so I try to give her as much power and say as possible when she's with me (very infrequently for minimal time) and try to do everything possible to include her and make her feel special - she chose DD2's name, she's godmother at the upcoming christening and I try not to make too much fuss over DD2 when we're with DD1 as I don't want her to resent DD2. She's already said frequently that she's upset that DD2 is with me all the time, lives with me and has our life when she's stuck with her Dad and his gf.

Anyway DD1 came up with the idea that we have DD2's Christening on the same day as her birthday party so her friends coming to the party would see her big moment making her vows as godmother. It was always planned to be a very small do, just part of the Sunday service with 9 of her friends present and one other family. No special readings and songs, no specific party, just a very small simple event with a few balloons and flowers around the church. Then we would all go to the birthday party venue nearby for DD1's birthday party, food and cake. DD1's "father" is being a real nasty b@st@rd and has blocked the christening on the day of the party. Apparently he's happy for there to be a christening and for DD1 to be godmother, just not on that day. He's not coming, there's no family or baby group friends invited, he knows the 1 other family coming, it's all DD1's friends and all about her, not DD2.

This now means that if we were to continue with a separate Christening we would have to make a big do out of it which I did not want or budget or plan for. DD1 would still want her friends there and as the whole event is all about DD1 and for her to be included in her sister's life after how much she is being blocked from her it would basically be just for the kids but they are not going to come for just an hour as part of the Sunday service in a church with no party and that wouldn't make the event special for DD1 so we would have to have some sort of gathering afterwards. He's blocked me from having the service in my beautiful local church and a party at home afterwards which means hiring the hall at the only other church where we have a connection, which is fugly and in the really grim rough part of town. There is no point having 5 or 6 girls rattling around in a big sparce hall so we'd have to invite at least 20. Twenty girls means lots of food, decorations, cake, entertainment, favours, as well as a private service instead of the Sunday service which then means readings, hymns, and fuss all about the baby instead of very low key, simple, quick and about DD1... There are no local restaurants to go for a meal after which would be easier but would also mean extra expense. This also turns it into a definite baby Christening with Christening themed decor and cake all about the baby rather than it being about DD1 with a party for her, defeating the entire point of the whole thing. This was never supposed to be about the baby, it was about DD1 and including her in her sister's life and making her feel special and giving her a little honorary role. I have made enquiries around the class to get a rough idea of who would come and so far, as I suspected, not many! Especially as they will have already been to a birthday party for DD1 with me, and I'd imagine one with her father as well and none of them know the baby who is being Christened!

I can't think straight anymore. I can't lift any of the restrictions. How do I do this without making it a big fuss about DD2, without it costing the earth, without it being at home, without all the pomp and fuss, making it all about DD1 not DD2. I wanted a christening not a naming ceremony but am willing to change that if it works better but every time I read up on either I start getting upset as I didn't want a separate specific fussy ceremony. :( Help!

When you say he's blocked things, do you mean he wont allow you access to her on the day?

Nightmare, has he given a reason as to why he wont allow it?

If he wants to do the bday party could you have the christening and then the party with him, then take her for a special dinner at a later date?

I dont know what to suggest other than dont get too caught up in the politics of it all and focus on the happiness of your dcs.

Sorry I find this all a bit confusing. How could he possibly 'block' what church you have the christening at? Surely the christening should be about dd2, I personally don't think it's a good idea to get her christened just to make dd feel special. Are you even religious? Can't you just make a nice homemade 'amazing big sister' card, or a nice special big sister necklace or something to give from your dd2 to make her understand how special it is to be a sister, rather than making it be all about being a godparent, which surely at
9 she wouldn't really understand what that means?
I understand that it must be hard to not live with dd1 but I think you should try and build on her being a big sister rather than just tying to make dd2 seem insignificant and it all being about dd1.

Do Godparents not have to be at least 16?

Is DD2 DD1's half or full sibling?

The situation of not fussing over DD2 when DD1 is over is going to be unsustainable when DD2 becomes a toddler, though I understand why you're doing it.

Are you sure the church will allow her to be godmother? My dd1 is hoping to be dd3s godmother, however she is 12, and confirmed so has already made vows to do with her believe, and I am STILL not sure the church will agree to it.

I also think a christening should be about the child being christened and not about making another child feel special I'm afraid. You run the risk of making your younger child feel resentful of the older one if you continue in the same vain.

A christening does not have to cost a lot. You don't HAVE to have a party if you don't want to.

There's no formal minimum age to be a godparent. 16 is the rule of thumb, but the priest has discretion so a family in good standing, especially with confirmed communicant teen, will be able to demonstrate quite easily that s/he has the necessary understanding for the role.

So, as I'd assume that the vicar at Church1 has approved DD1, but that the kne at Church2 is an unknown, you do better to stick at Church1.

Who are the other godparents? Do remember to warn them that the date is now uncertain.

Though of course if you stick with original venue for after-Christening party, irrespective of which church, you do not need to go to all the fuss of a bigger do, as I'm sure taxis across town would be a lot cheaper than inviting all those extra people.

I generally agree that the Christening party should be about the person who is being christened, though it's also a celebration of wider ideas of family. If you make sure the focus is on DD2, then it gets harder for DD1's father to maintain all these conditions, because it's not about her.

DS1's (5 months) half brother (8) is visiting at the moment for half term. We are doing fun things he likes most of the time but for example Saturday we took DSS7 to see DS's baby swimming class. I guess we are using this time while the baby is still little and doesn't know what's going on to introduce the idea of equality between them gradually IYSWIM, rather than making it all about DSS and then one day BAM, the baby becomes a demanding toddler who gets upset because he feels ignored.

There is no perfect solution when your ex is trying to "brainwash, controll and bully" DD1 because you can't change that. A similar thing happened to my OH when he was a child and now as an adult he recognises it as manipulative and abusive though. I think if I were in your situation I would just try my best not to engage with ex's mind games and be the best parent I could be in the time I had with firstborn, but that includes encouraging fairness.

Maybe doing a Christening on another day when DD1 and her friends can come to something resembling your original plan (small Sunday ceremony) might be the best thing? This whole DD2's christening which is actually DD1's big special day, part of her birthday, might be overkill. Maybe rethink your approach, make it about both of them and have it on another day.

DSS8, control

Sorry, too early in the morning!

DD2 is 3 months old. She hasn't a clue what is going on nor does she care. She will have birthdays which are about her, she has my full undivided attention 99% of her life, she can cope with the 1% of time that I'm trying to focus on DD1 so she doesn't resent this situation. I see DD1 so rare that I don't want the rare occasion that I see her to be all about DD2. She is excited about the christening and being godmother and the vicar is happy to accommodate it.

I was hoping more for suggestions on what kind of (cheap!!!) event I could do after the Christening for 20 ish 9yo girls that isn't christeningy or what kind of service to do that isn't all about the baby with poems and readings all about her. I really don't think I could get that many kids in the normal Sunday service without it disrupting everyone but to hire the hall after we'd need that many. See! I'm getting flustered and upset and panicked again and not thinking straight! I can't see how to do this. I really get upset when er I read the readings or think about the cake or food or decorations or anything, I really didn't want it to be about DD2 and I can't afford 2 birthday parties which is what it will essentially end up being. :-(

I think you are being ridiculous, 'I really didn't want it to be about DD2. It should be about DD2. I understand you want DD1 to be involved, but that doesn't mean she should be the centre of attention on what should be DD2's special day. I don't know why you are planning a christening to be honest.

I don't think anyone is saying that you don't give your dd2 the time and attention that she needs but it is is a bit hard for people to come up with ideas for making it a christening about someone else. It's saying you want to throw dd2 a birthday party but making it about dd1, it just doesn't work. What are you going to do on her wedding day, make it all about your dd being a bridesmaid? There's nothing wrong with putting the spotlight on dd1 for a change, but at dd2 christening it is a bit backwards.
Just throw your dd a lovely birthday party and have the christening later. Maybe in the summer and take them all to the park and have a picnic.

Well fine I'm ridiculous then. You don't know the situation but the last thing DD1 needs at the moment is a load of fuss about DD2. She needs to be involved and included and made to feel important. It's hard enough on her that when I see her I'm having to feed & change & tend to DD2 never mind a big fussy party and ceremony for her. This is not an average new sibling situation. This is a broken little girl desperately wanting to be with her mum & sister but being bullied and blocked and told she's been replaced and isn't my daughter anymore. I'm trying to do what is best for her, DD2 is fine and couldn't care less. Do you remember your christening?? Do you care who was there? Do you know what readings you had? It's never about the baby or it would be held in a soft play with leaky boob shaped teething toys.

Carry on the way you are going and DD2 will be a little girl forever in the shadow of her big sister.

SHE'S 3 MONTHS OLD. NOT 13.

Good luck for the future MrsDowneyJunior.

I don't see how your ex can stop you having the christening on the day of the party and directly inviting the 9 friends. Your ex is organising the birthday party itself?

There is obviously a major issue with your dd1 hardly seeing you and now you have a baby dd2. This is only going to get worse. No christening is going to solve the tensions.

How did this situation come about? On what basis is your ex being so negative about you? How long ago did you break up? Have you got a new partner?

Reading back you mention 9 friends at the christening ... Then 5/6 after ... Or 20

And you mention both you and your ex organising birthday parties

And talk as if the christening was all arranged. ... But now it's not ...

Where IS the birthday party going to be held?

I think it would help if you gave a bit more info?

OK I really didn't come here to be criticised for the situation or how my girls may or may not feel, questioned on why it's like this or have holes picked in it. I came here because the situation is shit, I can't see how to solve it & I was hoping someone else could see a way round it all.

The original plan was half booked (as in planned on paper, ok'd with venues and pencilled in) and was totally DD1's wish - small Christening as part of the Sunday service, 9 party friends attending to watch her be made godmother, few balloons on the ends of the pews, then on to the party activity down the road. OK? Simple enough.

Ex has vetoed the christening happening on the same day, not in my local pretty church, not at my house for any gathering afterwards, only in either the shitty church in the rough end of town or a naming ceremony at another venue.

If we keep it to a small thing, part of the Sunday crevice without a fussy party after I can only see a maximum of 5/6 kids coming if that, and it won't be special for DD1.

Therefore we'd have to make a party out of it with 20 odd kids to be worth it. Which would also mean mean a private service instead of just a low key part of the Sunday service.

I did not want, plan or budget for this. The girls are already going to DD1's birthday party with me, and I'd imagine one with her father as he always does one every year too. I doubt they'd come to a third event when none of them no the baby unless there is a big do, which is ludicrous. 3 do for 1 girl within a couple of weeks??

There, those are the facts, now how do I fix it?

Ugh typos! service dos *know...

Tell your ex to fuck off and mind his own business and then do it as you planned?

I don't understand how your ex can 'veto' any arrangements about the baptism.

However, if you can organise birthday party for DD1 why not have a naming ceremony for DD2 at it? Same venue as party, print some words off internet, DD1 makes promises to DD2, take photos, everyone claps and eats cake.

I know you wanted a baptism but you could always do that when DD2 is older anyway.

That's the entire problem, he has banned any kind of acknowledgement of the baby or her Christening/naming ceremony at all on the day of DD1's party. There is either no ceremony for DD2 at all, but then DD1 misses out on the godmother thing with her friends, or its an entirely separate do with no family or baby friends or my friends, only DD1's friends.

I'd love to tell him to go fuck himself. This shouldn't be anything to do with him, he's being an unreasonable controlling bullying prick but I have no choice.

But the birthday party is planned to be at your house? I can't work out how your ex is able to dictate which church you use or anything like that?

Does dd1 go to that church with you?

I would like to be helpful, but I am struggling to grasp it all

People are really trying to help you here op, and I think I am right in remembering your threads when you were expecting your dd2. I seen to remember your ex vetoing plans you had for a trip with your dd1, or taking her somewhere you had planned to take her before your contact? It's obviously a big problem but I don't think the idea of a christening come birthday party is going to work. Could you not arrange the christening for a different time completely? A couple of months later?

Christenings, by definition, are about the child being christened. They are not really about the godparents, or the siblings, or even the parents. They are about the baby. Welcoming the baby into the family of the church.

Your baby is currently three months old, but she is going to grow, and you are setting a precedent that will lead to problems in the future if you constantly try to make dd1 happy by diminishing dd2s needs and feelings.

I give up.