Newborn not pooing

[PrettyCandles]

Ds2 is 7 days old, his last poo was on day 3 IIRC. It was a mega-poo, with the meconium starting to change colour, and some yellow streaks. He's had plenty of wees. He's breastfed, and I know that bfd babies can go for days between poos, but I've never heard of this happening in such a young baby before he's got rid of all the meconium.

Any experiences?

Oh God, read that back, meant lots of HOSPITAL/MIDWIVE advice, clearly not MUMSNET advice. Hunker is fab too!

The paed suggested water because he felt ds2 was on the verge of dehydration. If I gave him sufficient top-up, whether f or ebm, he said he shouldn't need the extra water. Which is why I let him have f, as I'm pretty confident that I couldn't have expressed much that evening.

You can see a difference in ds2 already - he feeds with his eyes open for a large part of the feed, rather than dozing through it, and his lips are less dry.

And I thoroughly agree - thank goodness for MN and the fab advice and the fab posters!

PC - sounds like it's going well! Well done you and well done DS.

Oh b**er.

Tuesday was a good day, feeding-wise, and last night was decent too (11pmish, 3amish, 5.30am)0 but today we've backslid and we're back to falling asleep on the boob all the time. No more poos since the formula came through on Tuesday.

What am I doing wrong!?

At least the nappies are wetter than they were though and his weight is stable.

Sorry you've had a down day. My mw said to not worry at all if ds2 was asleep between feeds, but to keep him awake during feeds. I used to do things like putting him on the changing mat and flicking water at his face to wake him up, but it is hard I know. I think once they start gaining weight they get a bit more energy. Just keep doing what you're doing - loads of skin to skin. Have you tried feeding him in the bath? That's supposed to help with feeding I think. It's tough with a big one isn't it! You're doing really well, and if his weight's stable, that's good too. I do know how you feel - my mw brought a box of tissues every time she came to weigh ds1 and ds2, because I almost invariably cried if he hadn't gained weight.

You're not doing anything wrong AT ALL - you're being a brilliant mum to him, and he's really getting a good start thanks to you. ((((hug)))) Is your dh looking after you? You need to be able to really concentrate on your ds, not worry about the other children at all - be ready to just feed him whenever he's awake really!

Don't panic PC. Babies can be very contrary! Just keep an eye on things. Could it be he is sleepy because he is being wakened for feeds? It is a difficult balance to strike in the early days.
Have you tried wiping his face and hands with a cold cloth? Running your fingers up and down his back? Blowing on his cheek while feeding him? Skin-to-skin feeds?

How do your breasts feel? Can you hear him suck and swallow?

PC - has anyone seen you feed, from the start to the finish, since leaving hospital?

I'd be concerned about the baby falling asleep too quickly, to be honest - it may be ok, but you need someone to watch and help you judge.

The problem is that babies who are not feeding effectively or enough conserve energy by sleeping - thus exacerbating the issue of not getting enough calories in.

Sometimes, whild the breastfeeding is being worked on, babies need to be supplemented to get their energy levels up. First choice for this supplement has to be expressed breastmilk, of course (which also supports the production of breastmilk, too, as we know).

Regarding the weight - it's good weight is stable. Is he being weighed naked on digital scales? And when is he being weighed again?

A day that's not quite so good is not in itself a source of worry, by the way - maybe today will be better.

Oh Tortoiseshell that's so sweet of you to say. I'm all tearful now. I keep thinking that perhaps I'm being selfish in my determination to bf ds2. I know bm is best in the long run, but he needs nutrition now.

I know I should look at the overall picture, but I can't help being panicked by the minute-to-minute things. Like last night was, I thought, a good night: 12ish, 3.30, 7.30 - so lots of milk at the feeds and plenty of rest for both of us. But this morning the nappy was very light, with urates again for the first time in ages.

Sometimes the feeds just blur into each other, because he s pends so long on the boob, dozing off and beign woken. He starts of 'pumping' fast, then letdown happens (I can't feel it, never have) and he goes into the long sucks and swallows, then he drifts off. Eventually he can't be roused enough to suck and swllow, so I end the feed. But he doesn't reach that 'drunken' stage.

My boobs only ever feel 'full' if ds and I have both slept for an hour or two after a feed.

I struggled to feed ds1, and his weight kept dropping, and I ended up mix-feeding, and with PND and I don't want to go there again! I know I can feed my child. I fed dd and I so want to feed ds2. I was so confident that I wouldn't get PND with ds2 and I'm terrified now.

I'm sorry to waffle on so much and thanks so much for listening and supporting me.

I'm doing everything that you say - tormenting him during feeds to keep him awake, skin=to-skin wenever I can and all night, waking him for feeds (except at night), I've fed him in the bath, and spent the day in bed with him. Dh looks as haggard as if he was the new mum, because he is doing everything. He went back to work today, but my sister is coming for the day tomorrow, so I'm going to try another day in bed with ds2. We have a doula starting part-time on Monday, so I'll take advantage of her and go to bed with ds2 whenever poss.

OTOH the ILs are coming Sat-Sun, and we don't get on. OTOH I've just thought of a very good aspect of their visit - when they came after dd was born they, dh and ds1 went out that same day, without even saying hello or goodbye to me and dd, and I was deeply hurt by it - this time I think I'll encourage them to abandon me and the new baby!

Tiktok, no, nobody as watched a full feed. A BFC friend came over, but ds2 had just fed and wasn't very co-operative. I'm sure she helped, because my nipples had been dreadful (all scabby) and they started improving immediately, but it din't make much differecne to ds2's feeding.

He's been weighed naked on digital scales each time. There's no scheduled re-weighing, I imagine the HV will be in touch soon about this. TBH, after our little jaunt to the hospital I was surprised to be discharged to the HV. It was 3w before ds1 was discharged from midwife care.

We're thinking of hiring a breast pump (I have an Isis, but have never had much success with it, and, as yet, my boobs are still too sensitive for hand-expressign). But what would be the best way of using it in this case?

PC, your situation sound so similar to mine - my eyes are filling up with tears knowing how you are feeling. Just know that you are doing everything right for your little one.

As I said earlier, if you do decide to hire, I can recommend the Medela Lactina www.medela.co.uk). My DD decided that breastfeeding was way too much like hard work, and she was so comforted by the breast that she would fall to sleep practically as soon as she latched on and always within 1-2 minutes.

I was in hospital for six days and I think in that time EVERYONE had tried to get my little girl to feed and the conclusion we came to was that she was lazy (poor little mite) and preferred a bottle or cup. All the staff were excellent at encouraging BFing but they were baffled by her.

DD is 24 weeks tomorrow and still "laid back" (just like her Daddy). She will do things when she wants too (stubborn like Mummy). Don't get me wrong, she's not lagging behind - just a VERY chilled baby who likes to do things the easy way!

Good luck with your little one and sorry for waffling

Oh yeah, meant to say - I found I needed an "industrial" pump - the shop bought ones just don't cut the mustard for fast expressing on a regular basis and are designed more for occassional use I think.

PC - I can't 'prove' what I am saying, but it's based on a lot of experience....I think you will be ok and your baby will be ok if you simply carry on doing what you are doing. Keep an eye on things, continue to encourage your dd to feed better and more often, and you will start reaping the rewards of a lovely bf relationship.

Your baby is so lucky - a loving, responsive mum and a dad who lets her be that way by looking after the rest of the family stuff.

Urates in the nappy can freak people out, and yes, there is an idea that in the very early days it means 'please feed me more' but you are doing that!

It's great you can see the positive sides of your imending in-laws' visit. Being personally hurt by them is something you will come to see as unnecessary - yes, be angry and irritated, but recognise that they are missing out on a potentially rewarding relationship with you, and maybe even dd.

pc - you sound completely identical to me - ds1 ended up mixed feeding, dd was much better, ds2 was really hard. can't type much now (am feeding! ) - will type more later! x

Hi PrettyCandles, ds2 is asleep now, so have two hands! I so feel for you - my history was that ds1 was born at 9lb12, wouldn't feed for 48 hours, lost 1lb2oz, then put nothing on. I just cried so much, and like you, had to wake him the whole time. I had to set an alarm clock at night, because he wouldn't wake for a feed. I never felt any milk coming in, and tbh I don't think it ever really got off the ground, and having dabbled with expressing, I started giving him supplements of formula, which increased to 4 5/6oz bottles each day. I did feed him till 13 months, but really was quite sad about how his feeding had gone.

Dd was 10lb0, lost about 8oz in weight, then put it back on. She is a guzzler now, loves food, and I have heard (though not sure if it's true or not) that girls are often less problematic anyway.

Ds2 was 10lb2, lost about 1.5 pounds, and went REALLY sleepy. BUT having fed dd, I had that bit more confidence, and really went in for the EBM top ups. Confession time - I did give him a very small formula supplement in the evening - he would generally have between half and 2 ounces, around 6 o clock, but after I had given him as much b/milk and EBM as he would take. He dropped this fairly quickly, once his weight started to come up. He's about 6 months now, we've started solids, but only about 4 days ago, we made it this far on b'milk. He's a diddy chap though - he now weighs about 14.5 pounds, which isn't all that much considering his birth weight, but I'm sure the birth weight is an anomaly.

I suppose what I'm saying is that you'll get through this first period - I hate that getting them started time. Did you read that thread I linked to? I got some great advice from tiktok etc on there, and it does sound like it would be relevant to you. I used a Medela electric pump - if I was at home I would offer to send it you, but I'm away till the middle of next week, and I guess if you want to use one, you'll want one fairly soon. If you want to CAT me to chat more, then please do - it sounds like we've had really similar situations.

It does get better! If they've discharged you to the HV, that means they're not too worried - I was on mw care for over a month with ds2, because he just wouldn't put any weight on. He's creeping up the 2nd centile now!

xxx

Just read your question about pumping -the way my mw suggested was to feed on one side, then express off the other (i.e. straight after to get the 'let down' reflex from the baby), then give that to the baby. In practice what I did was to express BEFORE a feed, just off one side, then feed the baby, starting on the other side, then switch to the other side, keep switching until baby really wouldn't feed anymore, then gave the EBM. My mw also suggested expressing a bit off the side I was going to start feeding off, to increase the hind milk content of the milk the baby would be taking - I think the milk gets creamier and more calorific as the feed goes on, so by expressing a bit off first the theory is that the baby is getting more calorific milk. The downside I found to that was that the first 'gush' of milk really gave him an energy boost to keep him awake longer in the feed.

The other thing you could try is something I read about in the La Leche League book, called 'switch feeding' - they recommend it for sleepy feeders - it's basically just what it says - you start on whichever side seems fullest, then let them feed till you can't get them to take anymore, swop sides, so they get that first gush of milk from the other side which wakes them up, when they won't take anymore, switch them back onto the first side etc etc - keep repeating! I did that with dd and ds2, and it did seem to help. You can also schedule a nappy change for in the middle of the feed!

The problem with all these things is I felt b/feeding was supposed to be 'lovely' 'bonding' etc, and it all felt a bit artificial and hard work. But once it settled down it was fine and I could really enjoy it. Hope this helps a bit. I'll try and find a link to the La Leche League stuff.

PC - I am surprised your midwife transferred you to HV care when there were ongoing feeding issues. However, that said, perhaps she does not think that there is a huge problem here. Can you contact your HV and ask her to observe a feed? It may be that there is nothing wrong at all. I know baby's should be pooing more regulary but not all do - I had a midwife friend whose baby did not poo on a regular basis even from early on.
It is much better to get advice from someone who is hands on and can see you and your baby together. I personally don't think it sounds as though you need to be expressing over and above feeding unless he is not feeding well at all but that doesn't sound as though that is the case. The fact his weight is stable is a good sign.

THe HV has been, and watched a whole feed. Because he has cleared the meconium and his weght is stable she is not overly worried, but agrees that he looks too dry (even though not actuallyt dehydrated) and that he should be weeing more. He also has quite a severe rash on his back and arms which is basically an extension of the 'newborn erythema' and which, until mow has come and gone. But the rash has now ben there for a few days, getting worse all the time, and she wonders whether it might be because he is not flushing out toxins. I knowe that this can happen in adults, but awsn't sure that it could happen in newborns.

She suggested offering him water after a feed as a one-off, thinking his respones might indicate whether or not he is hungry, and at the least it would help to hydrate him.

Woops, it post too soon.

HV also suggested not waking ds2 to feed him, but seeing whether being alowed towake and feed when he was ready mihgt result in a better feed, rather than pestering a woozy baby to stay awake.

Hello, I feel a bit of a fraud coming on to this thread as I am not an expert, but I wanted to give huge sympathy as my DS was a very sleepy feeder. He didn't feed at all for the first 36 hours and when he finally did start I spent the first weeks of his life tormenting him awake.

A practical suggestion: has anyone suggested weighing him before and after a feed? I think that all this stuff about measuring a baby's input by the amount the mother can express is so unhelpful - breast-feeding is such an emotional thing it's impossible for a pump to do the job as well as a baby. A fluid oz of milk weighs 1oz or 1 ml of milk weighs about 1g (I think!) - it would give you a better idea of his intake than pumping.

PC, it's good your HV watched you feed.

However, I disagree with almost everything she has suggested to you! I wonder if mears feels the same

No idea how your HV knows how much he is weeing or how much he 'should' be weeing - a series of dry nappies would, of course, be not good. It is normal for babies to have dry, flaky skin and this is not a sign of dehydration. The toxins thing sounds highly unlikely...and as for giving water, dear oh dear. Whether the baby accepts it or not tells you nothing.

I sort of agree about not pestering him - but with lots of skin to skin contact you will find he will wake naturally anyway.

MissG: what you are suggesting is 'test weighing'. It hasn't been done in the UK for about 30 years (except very rarely) because of the lack of accuracy and the lack of information it gives. Not a good idea Expressing in order to measure what the baby is getting is equally pointless, I agree.

That makes sense tiktok - I read it in some book or other but it was probably an out-of-date one, I got a bunch of "helpful" literature from relatives when I got pregnant and most of it was printed in the 1970s!

Will bow out and leave you to the experts PrettyCandles, but huge sympathy and I hope it gets better. My DS had a v rocky start with breast-feeding but ended up exclusively breast-fed for 6 months.

MissGolightly, thanks for posting .

Tiktok, it's not dry flakey skin (ds2 has nearly sloughed it all off, and mostly his skin is perfect, far more so than you expect in a newborn) but a raised, red, pimply rash. Looks a bit as if he had been bitten by a horde of insects.

So you think the water is a bad idea?

BTW, my brother underwent test-weighing 40+ years ago, because he was vomiting after every feed. They found that he was basically a greedy-guts! He was filling his oesophagus and losing that milk, but keeping everything else down. No wonder he looked like Churchill!

Wish I had inherited my mum's abundant supply.

I'm getting in there a bit late. I just want to say that I am so happy to see that there is such good advice on here . I agree with everything TikTok and Mears have been saying:
1} no water
2) His weight is stable so that's good
3) Toxins??? Never heard of that before. Could the rash maybe be a heat rash, especially considering it's on his back.
4} Skin to skin as much as possible
5) I'm also convinced that it is nearly impossible to feed a sleepy baby. It would be an idea to test how long he would go between feeds if left. If it turns out to be more than 3-4h than cary on waking him.
I also want to say that your baby is very lucky to have a mum who is willing to persevere. If you get through those first few difficult weeks, then it will soon all seem like a distant memory and before you know you'll be enjoying a lovely bf-ing relationship with your ds.
And finally I want to say. Try to relax about it all. You are keeping an eye on him and he'll be OK. Stress is never good when you're trying to breastfeed. So relax and keep going (I know that's easier said than done )