Hurt my parents?run away and hide? cant let them have ds for 2 nights

[StressedKarina]

My brother was arrested for downloading indecent images or 12 to 13 yr old girls. he has tried to kill himself over it with remorse and called poilce on himself and he is mentally ill but no really diagnosed, has OCD stuff he does about germs and is odd and says things that are delusions, is early 20's and stays at my parents wher he eats sleeps and watches tv is not well enough to go and sign on and not on any benefits is totally unable to function without my parents. anyway, even though me and dh hate him for this as it has affected my elderlyish parents badly, and me .they have no one but us to talk to and my child is the only good thing they have in life at the moment and have kept it secret from other fmaily. we thought it was a delusion but the police had him in jail for 4 days last week and he is on bail so it is real. well my parents still bring him round the other night he paced about my kitchen and ate things I was nice ot him and dont want to hurt my parents, but next week for oct break they think ds is still coming ot stay overnight with them and sleep in the bed with my Mom for safety and reassurance for 2 days and nights as I need to be somewhere, but I have arranged to be off as I dont want him to go there and dh does not want him in the house or ds to be anywhere near him. even though we know it is not boys he was looking at and not of the age group of our son either, so there is no risk according to my parents but still I think I cant send ds to them but I cant hurt my parents either, they need me and love my ds, also Xmas will be an issue as HE will be there obviously, unless he gets jailed. Comments? anyone? are dh and I right to want to keep our ds away from him, or are we being abit over reacting and cruel to hurt my parents. i cant openly be off with my brother as he was my mom favourite and is mentally ill and 'fragile'and paents would be angry at me and i would make their life bad if I upset him and then my parents would not even have us to talk to this is not my normal nickname and am only using it for this, so wont have to delte thread new email accont and eveything just for this post

you are not being unfair I would not sand my dc to stay with them, You need to get more professionals involved, your elderly parents should not have to cope with this and they need to see their grandson so you broither needs to get help.

I am angry at waht he did as popel like that are evil, is making me ill and having nightmares and panic attacks for various reaons so I just can t send ds there but how do I tell my parents without hurting them and in particular my irrational mum who will say we have turned against him and so she will need to leave him everyhting in the will to make sure he is looked after, she says things like that

Karina I think you have to be honest with your parents and say that you are not happy with ds staying with them. There's no way on earth I'd allow my child to even if they were sleeping in same bed as grandma. Your child shouldn't need to sleep with his gran for safety and reassurance in their house.

I agree with unholy trinity, your parents need proper support it must be a living nightmare for them.

I think it sounds like your parents are fully aware that it is a problem (otherwise why would they suggest ds sleeps with them).

If the police have been involved, why aren't the mental health team involved? Is he on the sex offenders register?

can your mum come over to your house to look after your son
and your dad stay with your brother at their own house?

is your brother getting any king of help?

*kind

he had a few appointments at a clinic but becase of his age they ask him if he wants medication and he said he didnt need it and there were not more appointments, but I think the legal system will be looking at his psych hisotry, as he is over 21 they wont tell my parents anything even the solicitor, doctors or jail, wont talk to my parents about him as he is over 21 and patient/ client confidentiality/ data protection act so is very hard I told my dad maybe he could pay to get brother assessed, brother was school drop out anxious , pot head speed frek but after he tried to kill himslef in FEb about this, he just stays at home. i mean i see OCd in him paranoia and delusions and strange behaviour but as he is not harming anyone or himslef at moment there is no help. to get help in feb after sucide attempt and it was the dr that made him call police on himslef when he was there, he stopped eating for 2-3 weeks and then tey came but there was only 2 follow up appointments and like I said he said he was fine. he thinks he stopped eating for 3 days and cant understnad why parents called drs at that time. hte other night in my kitchen his eyes scared me they were just dead and murky and he is not self aware, ironically he had spent the day at his old firends house, how they dont find him odd is a mystery to me. the drs said he has to ask for help and agree to it because he is an adult

oh dear

is he violent? so the police are involved solely because of the indecent images?

that cold look in the eyes is very frightening and if he is paranoid and having delusions, I really would be very concerned for your parents (and him).

No, I guess you can't force people to have treatment if they don't want it - however, there is normally a team of people called the Community Mental Health Team (think this is their name) who consist of special mental health nurses and they normally keep an eye on those with mental health problems in the community.

I wonder if it is worth seeing if your brother has had any dealings with them. I think they often visit people in their home settings just to make sure they are ok. Even if he won't have treatment, I wonder if his GP or pyschiatrist could set up something like this?

he is nto convicted yet just arrested and on bail but his bail says no unsupervisd contact with children under 16, so my parent think is okay as he is nto unsupervised and loves my ds and would never hurt him. but all i keep thinkingis what if ds had been a girl , I used to have him stay at my house and sleep next to ds as he was my borther and there was no pouint sleepong on floor and I used to chat to him as I bathed ds when ds was a little baby I trusted him completley and a frew motnhs ago he told me it was all untrue and he could nto remeber what he told police , but that he was nto one of those men and nothing owuld come of it as police took his pc in feb, but that was lies, it is true, and when he did it he was 'normal' afte the sucide attempt he becase like tis alothughwas always odd, is strange I never felt it. other female cousins found him creepy but i never felt it. make no mistake ds is not going next week but I wish i did not have to tell my parents, they as nice parents and cant cope with it as it is. not on offender rgister unless convcicted and he will be pleading guilty as my parents found a solicitors letter and read it , they had to as he wont talk about it

the Community Mental Health Team came in feb when he stopped eating for 3 weeks and looked like he wouild die, he said he would eat and then started to eat again the next day and after a few appountemnts i mentioned it fizzled out as he did not want medication adn it is all up to him it seems plus he thinks he is okay but a bit depressed.

oh karina, how sad. Have your parents contacted MIND? Here is a factsheet from them about what services carers (i.e. your parents) can access.

I agree with what you've said (about not allowing him to go). I think perhaps you'll have to get your mum on her own and have a chat with her. Perhaps they could get a respite carer to look after your brother while they come and see you? If he really cannot be left on his own, then they really do need some extra help (and social services may be the best people to call first so they can assess what his needs are).

They must leave the house to do shopping etc.

he did not even tell the jail he was vulnerable, luckily they listend to my parents and did not transfer him kept him at the observation thing 24 hours observation for the whole 4 days

If he becomes really really unwell, they can ask to have him sectioned (think you have to ask the doctor for this).

thank you for the fact sheet, and for all the posts, it helps as i cant talk to anyone in real life aobut this apart from dh. i will have to talk to them, but my mom will be hurt she is always looking for signs that we will turn on him, and fears she will die and then he will be on the street begging and I had to promise her I would always look out for him as did my dad , but no oneis allowed ot be angry at him, she wants him to put it behind him and never do it again obviously and she is relived that he has nver actually hurt anyone reall but when i said it is still like abuse she gets upset. I said no one that age wants picture of them downloade by men all over the world for peopel to look at no 12-13 year old child would want that so it is hurtung someone indirectly and it is vile. If it was not for my parent I would cut himout of my life with no conscience. he was not mentally ill when he did it but is now .he is just goingto linger about ruining my fmaily set up, everthing would be good if he had nto done it. dh does not wnt him in the house but in cant tell them as he migth realsie and feel bad and then get worse ill if you knwo what i mean and then that would be our fault. thanks for the posts everyone, it make it much clearer that talking to them is unavoidable which i guess i already knew, but wish i could just emmigrate so I would not have ot upset my parents

unfortunately, even if you did emigrate, it would probably still haunt you . That running away feeling is just really our self defence mechanism kicking in when we know we have to do something we really don't want to.

I do feel for you. I'm sure your mum will understand - I think it sounds like they know this is coming. If your dh doesn't want him in the house, I think this is something else worth discussing with your mum.

Honestly, it sounds like they (your parents) are desperate for outside assistance. At the moment, they are offloading on your shoulders - but it isn't your job and your parents should be getting support from other agencies. Hope the chat goes ok - good luck.

thank you everyone who replied, I am on mumsnet everday as my real self and this is something tha tis affecting me so much as at a smiliar age i was abused and brother grew up with me crying a lot and being unable to cope untill i moved otu at 18 so he knows why it is wrong and that he did this was the ultimate betrayal. obviously he was nto told wy his siter was upset a lot untill he was older, but the point is he knows how bad it is for the girls, and although he did not take the pcitures, he looked at them and they must be wrong kind of images if the police decided to arrest him. and him trying to kill himself was selfish. he should have vowed to never do it again and then gave his computer away and told no one. then our lives would have been unaffected. now eveyone is suffereing

Thank you foxin socks, you are very kind person. I will hopefully talk to them later today so it wont bugme all weekend

LittleGlowormOfHorrors, thanks for your post I think my Mom will be so offended even if I put it as nicely as possible, so that it wont be an option fro her to come here, and if I say dh is not wanting to talk to him or have him in house then she wont want to come back she islike that. in feb at first when we thought it was real dh avoided them by having baths etc going to the shop but they noticed and mom sniped aobut it a lot.
dh was sympathetic when brother was in jail and my parents were so worried and he really did feel bad for brother being in jail as did I, as he is very fragile and we of course have some good meemories of him as a child etc, we felt sorry that a mentally ill person was in a cell without his parents and probably scared and that my parents were in pain, but when he got released he just bitched about only being allowed one shower and not being fed properly so now we are not sympathetic at all,he was not suffering he was just stoic it turned out

Hi, sounds like your really up against. I've a similar situation with my brother - I won't bore you with the details but he won't accept help.

You have to trust your instincts, I wouldn't let my DD spend more than 5 mins with him at a family gathering. I just don't trust him.

Your family is you, dh and ds - protect them above all else, your parents would understand.

Hope this helps, good luck.

Thank you poppy you are right, ds comes first

My brother is mentally ill (although he has not done anything like what you describe it was all harm to himself). And the system is incredibly difficult as despite the person being mentally ill no one else is allowed to seek help on their behalf- unless they can get a section order. (that has happened twice to my brother once voluntarily and once against his wishes).
It is incredibly difficult for the carers (which in my case was mostly my mother).
I agree with all the other posters that you can only do what is best for your DS. But may be it is worth saying that the vast majority of mentally ill people are more risk to themselves than others. And also a person can appear 'normal' but they never really escape the illness. My brother is managed by drugs and can appear and function relatively normally most of the time but he is still and always will be mentally ill. Therefore whatever your brother has done (and I do not excuse it for one minute)it is probably down to his illness.
My brother was first sectioned in 1998 and still doesn't have a 'diagnosis'. As you say the main battle is getting the patient to admit to it and get help.
I am not sure this helps much. I don't recognise my brother from the one I knew when he was little and it is very sad- I had to grieve for that. And I am angry for how much he affects my life and that of my family (he threw a 'wobbly' at my wedding for gods sake) but he is still my brother.
But your DS is too young to have to be a part of it however hard it is for your parents to hear.
Hope this helps even in a small way

It does help reading your post. I know he was probably always like that and has been odd for years, I get conflicted because , like you said he is not the little boy from when he was little and I loved him very much and also it is sad, that that little boy has become this person and so no bright future ahead of him like we always talked aboout when we were little, but I am also really angry with him. He will always be my brother that is why when he came in i made him a drink and got him food and talked normally to him.And I did phone my Mom but i couldnet hurt her, I just said on Oct break I will keep ds as when they had ds for October break previously, I got upset seeing all the other Mums with their ds's and just wanted ds back so it is better for me to keep ds at home, which she kind of remembered so it was a good reason.she hinted that dont you want him around ds? and I just said there are too many things going on at the mment and i just want ds with me.your post helps, I just wish he was still that lovely little boy like when he was little that made us all happy and was going to do well at school and we would be friends when we grew up. But that person is gone. I will be there for my parents whilst keepin him and ds apart as much as possible, maybe I will go to other relatives at christmas seems like a good excuse although the thought of my parents sitting there with him on christmas days is pretty hellish, thank you for your post

So glad it helps. I read your most recent post and so much of it rings true with me. My brother is 10 years younger than me and was so gifted as a child. Everyone loved him and he is not and never will be that person again. BUT after 7 years of treatment he is OK a lot of the time and has a future. It can happen with the right treatment. But its getting to that phase. Which he can only do if he admits he needs help.
I do still get angry about it but I think that is part of the 'grieving' process.
I also worry about what will happen when my parents are not around anymore.
I think you handled the situation with your Oct break really well and you can only do so much to help your parents.
At the end of the day the way my mother feels about my brother is how I feel about my DS's but I will never feel that strongly about my brother although I love him- if that makes sense.
I wish you the best of luck - all of you.