Not sure about having kids... (again)... any advice welcome

[jakesmith]

I know this is a board for parents and I know this has been done before but I'm in a real conundrum about this and was hoping for some opinions please

I've just turned 35 and DW is about to turn 34. We have never wanted children and don't really like babies or toddlers or find them cute at all, now my sister & many of our friends are on their second ones. I'm always so relieved when they leave after visiting as I find the noise and mess really upsets me. I always thought my mind would change as I got older but I realise now we are at the point where we need to decide one way or the other.

I am worried that we'd be missing out on something amazing and missing the chance for family life, I don't know anyone who regrets having kids but all I see is downside. We're not into partying any more but we've both got to a point in our careers where we are finally comfortable financially and able to buy nice things, eat out, do stuff impulsively, have a nice car (which I love), go on holidays. If we had a child and DW wasn't working, our financial situation would take us right back to having only enough money to stay at home & just about survive. It's hard to put the genie back in the bottle once we've enjoyed such a comfortable lifestyle.

DW is not the main earner and has a job in the NHS which she loves. Her wages would only cover childcare if she was working as it is very expensive where we live. Our parents are too far away to help.

I really don't know what to do - my parents gave me so much unconditional love and I love my DW so much, she's an amazing lovely kind person and I would like to think that we'd be able to pass that on but it feels like such a massive step and neither of us feel that confident that we want to do it. If one of us was really up for it though we would do it however I am the most up for it out of the two of us and I've set my feelings out above, any thoughts appreciated

Nobody has children for the good of mankind

hmm I think some people think that the world is a far, far, better place with their DCs in it and think the world owes them a favour for gifting the universe with such wonderful small people.

I didn't have kids for many of the reasons you mention - and I don't miss it a bit. But I always preferred cats, and I have one I couldn't be without.

On the other hand, no one I know who had kids when they were unsure regretted it.

I would say there are people out there who, if they had their time over again wouldn't have children. Its something thats not discussed though. Its a taboo. They are relentless. You will be poorer, less free and constantly worrying about them and whether you are doing the right thing. Life is definitely easier without, but only you can decide if all those things are worth it

Very true BalloonSlayer!

Yep minipie we do make decisions based on longer term plans - but all are reversible! Having children is not reversible.
I'd agree that if you're ambivalent about it, err on the side of caution.

Thanks so much for the time and thoughtful opinions and responses. I'm going to go through these in detail with DW now....

I'm not particularly keen on babies and children in general. Bloody love mine though!

But I knew I would. My dm is similar - she loves me and my brothers utterly and was/is the most fantastic mother, but never exuded delight in other people's children. Some people are very good with ALL children. Some people are great with their own, and love them totally (while acknowledging that parenthood can be hard work). Some people just don't want kids. And that's fine.

Me and DH are happily childfree by choice, we are very very very against having a child for many reasons, which it won't go into because it'll sound offensive to those who did choose to have them. (Why am I on a parenting site? Got sucked in after a google result for something years ago, hang out on AIBU, relationships and Doghouse, and really, all the actual parenting posts here has put me off children even more :-s )

You and your wife are already a family, it's well known that having a child is the worst thing you can do to a relationship, unless you're fully committed to the idea of financial restrictions, travel,time, space, life limits, poo, noise, health implications, stopping your hobbies for about a decade and being responsible for forming a nice, well rounded productive member of society for the rest of your life... Yeah, plenty of people put no thought into making a human, plenty of people have a kid via accidental pregnancy etc. and do fine. But once you have your own life, hobbies, free time etc it will seem harder to give it all up?

For me, the potential benefits don't sound all that great to be giving up my body and the rest of my life. I love my life and for that reason my contraception is dear to me!
(I hope I haven't offended anyone, no I don't know the joys of sticky toddler kisses or whatever, so I don't understand, and I'm fine with that.)

I agree with most of your list of downsides Even, but I'd have to disagree with "having a child is the worst thing you can do to a relationship" - I think adultery or abuse come rather higher up the list of bad things you can do to a relationship! There's no doubt that having a child can put a lot of strain on a relationship, especially I think a relationship that hadn't had to cope with any strains or stressful times pre DC. But it can also bring you closer together in some ways.

I was on here about 4 years ago asking exactly the same question. Lovely mumsnetters gave me lots of food for thought, but the comment which really stayed with me was someone saying that it shocked her how easily she could have not had her kids. That she would have enjoyed her life, been happy, and wouldn't have realised how much she was missing out on. We finally decided to go ahead, and have a lovely 2 year old, and that's exactly how I feel now.

For me, it was a real leap of faith: I thought I would like to have my own family - mainly to build for ourselves what I experienced growing up - but the thought of having a young child wasn't very appealing. I loved my pre-DD life, wasn't that keen on other people's babies (I too asked friends with children what the upside was, since I couldn't see it - and never got a good answer! ). But I can tell you now that having my daughter is without a shadow of a doubt the best thing I have ever done or will ever do. This is despite having an interesting, professional career which I love, and having had a fun social life in London, and travelled LOTS (my passion pre-DD). None of it compares to having my daughter.

Of course, there's the caveat which I'm sure haunts you as it did me: that's only my experience, and may not be yours. Not everyone I know has loved it so much.

I think it helped that I'm quite an old mum, and I've already done a lot of the things which aren't possible now, so I don't regret the loss of freedom too much. If there are things you really want to do (like going travelling, or taking a really demanding role) then make sure you do them first. I know you feel it's decision time, but you probably do have a bit of time, and it's better to have no regrets.

The other thing - and this is probably controversial - is to try to think about your own character quite carefully. As a PP said, your character doesn't change when you have children. If you are used to working very intensely, that will help (most people find the first few months very hard, but I found it not dissimilar to the final push when getting a project live). If you generally give quite freely of yourself, or if you are patient, that will also help. If you're flexible, and can modify your expectations easily, that will help a LOT. Enjoying sleep and your own company might seem incompatible with children, but it's surprising how those needs give. On the other hand, if you have time-consuming hobbies which are very important to you, then that's going to be frustrating.

A couple of other things which people told me, which I found useful were:

1. Babies don't stay that way for long. Think about whether you want a child, not a baby
2. Having children happens around the edges of life. You do still carry on doing other things.

I hope that all helps, and good luck with making your decision.

Btw, I certainly don't mean to imply that you need to be some kind of saint to enjoy having children. Just that as with any job, certain character traits will make that job easier and more rewarding for some people than others.

OP, all I can do is share our experience. DH and I have 3 between us, but none together. When we married last year we had discussed children and aired all the "if we won the lottery", "we have enough already", "it wouldn't be fair on the ones we have" arguments. But deep down we both desperately wanted to bring our own child into marriage - we were just scared of voicing to each other as there would be no going back once it was out there. My DS recently turned 12 - I brought him up almost entirely on my own and was desperate for a large family. DH has 2 children (6&8) who come to us every other weekend and 50% of holidays - he was in an abusive relationship and as her parting gift his exW emotionally blackmailed him into having a vasectomy. So there was a bit of an obstacle!! But nothing insurmountable.
Anyway, we (DH) finally decided that we would wait till finances were better and then look into reversing the snip - thinking we had all the time in the world as my mother was having babies at 46 and I am only 36. Sadly not - it turned out that I was going through early menopause. We only missed the boat by a matter of months. Even medical assistance would be unlikely to help - not without costing us a house!
If you have even a question mark over the baby thing, then discuss it honestly with your DW - babies are only expensive if you want them to be and you should never put finances first!

I'd agree with Strawberry over EvenBetter about it being easier in some senses being an older first-time parent because you've had lots of time to focus on work, travel, sociability, lie-ins and gadding about, and thus don't feel as thwarted when a small child restricts your freedom for a while.

I certainly see this as a significant difference between me (baby at almost 40) and my friends who had babies by their mid-20s. And there is also the huge fun of introducing your child to things you love - I've just taken my two and a half year old to a classical music concert for children for the first time, and it was like experiencing my own first exposure to music for the first time, and the loveliest feeling.

EvenBetter, no need at all to apologise for being adamantly against having a child. I suspect that at least some of us parents on this thread understand precisely where you're coming from, because we felt that way ourselves. I would certainly have agreed with you during my 39 childfree years, and I still understand entirely why someone chooses not to have a child, although I'm delighted we made what another poster aptly called a the 'leap of faith' and had our son.

The problem about trying to give both sides to someone considering having a child is that you absolutely cannot see what having a child is like 'from the outside'. It just looks like a slog involving a lot of snot and sleeplessness. The good stuff is practically impossible to convey, whereas the good stuff about not having a child is self-evident. No one needs to have the benefits of enough sleep and the ability to run off to Paris for the weekend at the last minute explained.

But I don't agree at all with the 'if you're ambivalent, then definitely don't' argument. I was deeply, deeply ambivalent, and having a child has made my life much harder and much better. Though of course, reproducing us not compulsory. I would say 'don't feel you have to have a child because it seems everyone else is'.

We were the same as you - great careers, very comfortable lifestyle, very happy lives. We didn't (still don't, mostly) like other peoples children, even family members! We have a nice home and don't like mess, hate having children over to visit. We didn't like babies but couldn't imagine our future without grown up children of our own in it, so we left it a bit late took the plunge. We adore DS more than we ever thought possible and wish we'd started a family years ago.

I think you'll get answers like this from people who decided to have children and many 'we didn't go it and we're perfectly happy' responses too. But I think the fact that you'd do it if you won the lottery is very telling.

Rusticated has hit it on the head with the previous post

Thanks so much everyone for taking the time to write such lovely helpful replies. I do think that something is chaging in me & I'm coming round to the idea of giving it a go, I think my DW can be pursuaded the main issue is that she is fairly scared of pregnancy & birth but she does work in a hospital so hopefully that will help a little

These are all such great posts!

OP - it sounds as though your DW is more against the idea. How strong are her feelings against having kids?

I don't want to put a downer on you but if your DW is against the idea I would hate to think she would feel pressured into having a child. Unfortunately the mother does tend to become the main carer through default (breastfeeding if that is what you decide, night wakings, day to day care). I can think of one instance, in real life, where the father was the main carer but it's much more common for the mother to do the lion's share (at the beginning anyway - my DS is only 16 months but I have so much more time to myself now that DH can take him off to the park for a couple of hours).

Have you discussed practicalities in terms of support? - it sounds as though your DW would give up work for a while but look into daycare options etc too. My DS goes to nursery and I honestly would be an awful SAHM - work keeps me sane.

However if her main concerns are only towards the pregnancy and birth then as a PP said "Think about whether you want a child, not a baby" - great advice!

I was always a kiddie hater, adamant I was not going to have kids. TBH we started trying to conceive with the attitude of "let's just see what happens" and I was secretly hoping it wouldn't happen! We also live overseas and had no family support.

DS is 16 months now and I hated, hated, HATED the baby stage (could only admit this on here). Really resented DH as he could go to work and leave the drudgery of a baby behind. Things are so much better now that DS is starting to say words, walking and showing much more affection. We have loads of fun and I have even started to consider a second!

At the end of the day I've found being a mother so much harder than I ever thought it would be - all encompassing but I can't imagine my family any other way now.

Good luck with whatever you decide.

I haven't read the replies in this, so sorry if I'm repeating what's been said. But DH & I didn't want to have babies, we didn't like babies and children and weren't good with them. BUT, we wanted a family. We wanted family life and all that brings.

We now have 2 wonderful DC and love them more than we'd have thought possible. Yes it's hard work and has involved a lot of sacrifice, but my god it's worth it ten times over.

It it turns out that we like our own babies and are much better with them than we though we would be!

I'm fatter, more knackered, less sociable and infinitely poorer these days, but I wouldn't swap my life for anyone else's now for all the tea in China.

I have never had a broody day in may life.

I had 4 DS; I was 37 when I had DS1

For me it was very much a 'long game' to try for a family (it did take us 5 years to eventually have DS1): I find babies v hard work and not very rewarding, toddler are Hard Work and like very cute psychopaths, I now enjoy my walking/talking pre-teen children and hope to have a long and happy relationship with them.

I could not imagine being a mother but equally I could not imagine an Old Age without adult children +/- spouses +/- grandchildren in my life. So, we went for it .
All my pregnancies (including the ones I've lost) were exciting, wondrous experiences; the MCs were sad, but physically not hard to bear, emotionally more so, of course, but we still felt it was worthwhile persevering.
Labour and birth I can honestly say were the most exciting and thrilling experiences of my life (I've had an induction, emCS and VBAC 2x). My children are exasperating, hard work and also The Most Fascinating People In The World (well, to me!).

I think you need to stop thinking about it with your head.
Ask your gut.
If your DW were expecting and she lost the pregnancy, would you be relieved or upset? There's your answer.

Just thought I'd come back to this one. DW is now 14 weeks pregnant & screening is all good so far. She's retraining & is going to start her own business from home once settled.

Both nervously looking forward to what the future holds & glad we made the decision, thanks for the well balanced views on here. As an aside, DW got pregnant the day after she came off the pill which is pretty insane but true.

Congratulations, and all the best for the future!
Thank you for coming back to tell us - it's lovely to know

Congratulations!

Wow congratulations! :-D I am new to this thread but wanted to say that all will be well. I don't like other people's kids either. I don't like looking after them. But my own are different. I was never ever the kind of person who really wanted or longed for kids and I wondered if I ever would. Well I never got to that stage of longing but I decided to have a kid anyway and luckily I was able to. Best thing I ever did- and I say that as someone who had post natal depression and could not breastfeed etc. It is hard work for sure, but really worth it in the end. All the difficult stages pass- they really do- and you child will bring you so much joy. I am not one to say that everyone should have kids, but a friend of mine told me, if you're even 50-70% sure about it then just for it, and I think he was right. Good luck to you! Mumsnet is a great source of sensible and helpful support! xxxx

oh congratulations! Hope all carries on as smoothly as it started

There will inevitably be difficult times - having a newborn is a shock to most people unless you get a very easy baby - but 98% of people find these are far outweighed by the good bits overall, esp as the child gets older, so if you hit a hard patch then please don't think that means you made the wrong decision...! Personally I think it's best to go into parenthood with a healthy sense of trepidation

Op I know it's morbid but imagine yourself on your deathbed - who do you want to be standing beside you?

I was vehemently against having children until someone asked me this question and my first thought was "my children". I'm now a mum of one and it's been a rollercoaster. Life was tootling along nicely but I never knew extreme love, extreme fear, extreme joy or extreme fatigue until I became a parent - you experience extreme feelings and that's the main difference. It's damn hard work, you are tested every day and you give up a lot especially in your relationship but you also learn a lot about yourself and you get to watch an amazing person grow and develop.

That's the truth there for you. I can't tell you what to do but chances are if you both feel like nothing is missing then it probably isn't.