The great routine debate!

[loobins]

Hello everyone,

I'm new to the site and don't really know what I'm doing, so bear with me if I'm doing something wrong! I don't really know the etiquette! Also, I posted a version of this message on another thread yesterday, wso if you've already read this - sorry!! But someone suggested I start a new one - so here goes!

I wanted your opinion on something, if poss. My baby was four weeks old yesterday and I'm quietly going off my head, tearing myself apart about whether or not I'm doing it right. Thankfully, this site has helped me realise that's normal, but I'm still questioning what I'm doing!

What does everyone think of routines? We're following the Rachel Waddilove one, and I'm swinging wildly between thinking he's better when he knows where he is and sleeps properly and thinking I'd like to throw the damn book out of the window! I know he's had bad days when he hasn't gone down for naps and he's definitely not as happy then, but some days I feel like I'm trying to squeeze him into a routine that doesn't suit him and I'm permanently trying to get him to sleep when he doesn't want to. I can't work out if he's crying because he's not used to it and I'm doing him a favour by putting him down or if he's crying because he really doesn't want to go and I'm being a bad mother!

I not arsed about getting him to fit into my day or anything - I've got nothing else to do but look after him! I just want him to be happy, and I think getting plenty of sleep helps that. I just seem to be constantly trying to get him to sleep or waking him so I can feed him - and not a lot of enjoying the 'happy little boy' I'm meant to have as a result.

Sorry for the rant (god, you're all going to think you've got a right one here!!) but I'd love some help! I think I'm crying more than the baby!!

• Just to add to my confusion, I've had a brilliant night and morning with him today!! The best yet!! So now I really don't know what to do!! Your thoughts would be appreciated!

x

I'm of the opinion that until 12 weeks, do nothing, Then after that, watch the child and try to spot what his natural routine is, and go with it as much as possible.... when they are at about 6 months, have worked out their routine and you are used to it, then tweak it to fit your needs.

No idea if that is any help.

Never heard of RW, so no opinions there. I only know about babywhisperer and the other one, and neither suited us all the way... read the books, decide what you agree with, then make it up as you go along

Hi loobins - my DS is 8 weeks (my first too) and know exactly what you mean about not knowing what to do for the best. I haven't really read any of the books (have MN for advice, much more helpful ), but I would say the thing that's worked for me is 'don't mess'. If your babe is happy asleep, then let him sleep, he'll soon wake up if he needs something. And that thing that everyone says about knowing the different cries , not sure about that one, but I would say that in the last 2 weeks I know my boy's cues a little more e.g. crying and wriggling his bum usually means nappy etc. Also if you want to cuddle him all the time, then do it - it's about working out what kind of parent you are as well as what kind of baby you have.

Also, I've learned to accept that at this point no 2 days are the same, and just to go with the flow a bit. Oh, and that thing about sleep when the baby sleeps, would def recommend if you can. If you can't sleep, then put your feet up for a bit and do something relaxing.

hth - sounds like you're doing great!

DD - I knew her cries perfectly... DS - 7 months old and still not got a clue

Am absolutely no expert at all, but no how desperate I was for advice when mine were born so here goes - agree with flamesparrow to try and spot what child's natural routine is in a few weeks time.

Tried to force DS into a routine from a book that didn't work for him from 6 weeks and took us 6 months to get him to sleep through the night. Was much more gentle with dd and worked out when she wanted to sleep and built my routine around that. Tried never to stop her sleeping when she needed to.

In general, I like routines but flexible ones that fit with the child.

Hope this helps and best of luck!!

Depends what kind of person you and your baby are. I like to know where I am, so routine works for me. I've never heard of Rachel Waddilove either - is it a very strict routine?

My DS2 is 3 weeks old, and he seems to be falling into a pattern, but 4 weeks is a bit young IME to get a baby into a strict routine. Tried it (the routine we can't mention) with DS1, and got myself in a state, so am relaxing much more this time. It wasn't until DS1 was more like 12lb and about 3 months that it started to work.

Every day will be different at the moment, but the one thing I did learn last time that's been invaluable this time is that a newborn can only manage to stay awake happily for 1 1/2 - 2 hours at a time, before they need another nap. I've also woken DS2 up to feed him every 3 hours in the day if he hasn't woken before - trying to feed him as much as possible in the day so that he gets most of his nutrition between 7am and midnight and begins to learn that nighttime is for sleeping for longer.

Good luck, I'm sure it'll settle down. Becoming a mum is such a shock to the system, it takes a while to work it out. Everything you are feeling and going through is normal.

I agree with most of what has been said. I think it took me and DS about 12 weeks to get into any kind of "routine" and even now it changes every day! It is very easy to say now that DS is 11 months but do try to go with the flow while they are very little. I spent alot of time worrying about routines and sleeping and feeding and in the end it all worked out. All your hormones and lack of sleep do not make for rational thought processing! Good luck - being a mum takes some getting used to!

I'd say some babies are easier to read than others. I know my ds was difficult and a routine helped me to feel he was getting what he needed.

I tried to let him find his own routine but he just didn't seem to do it so at about 6 months old I started to encorage him to sleep at set times, though I never tried to get him to stay awake if he was tired. TBH my problem with ds was never one of keeping him awake - it was always that he didn't/couldn't sleep.

I would try and let your baby set their own schedule for now - especially since he is so young. If in a few months he doesn't seem content and still seems unsettled than maybe you could try and gently encourage him to sleep regularly each day.

Chuck the book out of the window. Do what feels right (be confident in yourself, mum's have succesfully parenting for thousands of years without manuals)
I wouldn't wake your baby from a sleep to feed him. Why not let him sleep when he's sleeping, feed him when he's hungry and change him etc. wen it needs doing. You'll soon see a pattern developing that will be your baby's unique routine. This, by the way, will change as baby gets older, so be ready to be flexible and adapt).
Manuals and books are great for general advice, as are other people's views, but as someone else said there is always the risk of iformation overoad so just go easy on yourself, enjoy your baby, get to know his patterns and habits. Do what feels right. Do what makes baby happy and content. Enjoy the time as they grow up fast!

As everyone has said 4 weeks is very young to try to enforce a routine.

I am a person who likes to know what I'm doing so I found the first weeks awful. I then started using the routine from a certain book and found that things improved.

I spent the next 3 weeks religously following this certain book and I am sure on occasion poor old Rookiebaby was being pushed around in his pram with me desperately trying to get him to sleep and he was actually hungry. Did I miss some "enjoyment" at this stage for not going with the flow ? I don't think so because the type of person I am means that I don't enjoy being like that. Did rookiebaby suffer as a result ? I don't think so, sure I did follow some of the timings to the letter at the beginning which was just STUPID of me. As with any advice book I ignored anything which sounded daft or unreasonable.

Now at 6mths I follow a rough schedule for feeding times, but obviously if he is hungry earlier or later then I feed him at that time.

It's horses for courses so no you don't have to follow a routine from a book, but if it makes you happy and works for your DS then go for it.

Tbh, I think you best bet is to just have a rythm to your day, i.e. I find getting up at the same time every day sort of gets them into their own lil routine...I just feel it all falls into place automatically...and of course having a "weind down " routine in the evening might help too!
But other then that just watch your child and bond and learn, go by his cues.
HTH

Oh, God. I read a RW article a little while ago where she said that better parents didn't go to comfort their crying children.

I am afraid that I would poke her in the eye if I met her.

Please throw the book away and just get on with enjoying your little baby.

Never read anything of that person...tbh, I think it's the first time I ever heard of this woman...but yeah...think I would have to agree with hunkermunker...what terrible advice...so, what is that womans history then?

More qualified than the other one, but equally...ooh, had to stop myself there!

lololol...is she a parent then?

Follow what makes you and the baby happy. I really wouldn't wake a baby up to feed - especially such a young one. You should be sleeping when he sleeps rather than waking him up! Bin the books and follow your instincts. I had one that was a total hippy free spirit baby who never fed or slept or did anything else the same time two days running then another one who I tried to treat like his big sister (because that was my experience of babies) and who was miserable til I realized that he liked routine and regularity to the point of obsession! When he was 12 months old, he was ready for lunch at 11.45, give of take 5 minutes every day. And he was ready for bed at 7. Not 10 to, not 10 past, but 7. On the dot. I feel for his future wife, I really do!

I'm a routine sort of person so I found that by getting a bed time routine in really helped everything else to fall into place..
I woke mine up at 10pmish and gave them a bath, at first they hated it and screamed.. but they soon began to enjoy it and kicked their legs and splashed..
I gave them a massage and then a bottle in a quiet dark room...
I then put them down when they were really sleepy, but not quite asleep..
they would then tend to wake up about 4 hours later...2:30/300am and again I would feed them in a quiet darken room... no eye contact or changing them unless they were really wet obviously.. I would then burp them, and give them the last ounze... (sp)
then they would wake up 4 hours later...
they both slept through at 7 weeks from 11pm to 7 am.. then I moved the bedtime forward half an hour each night till at 12 ish weeks they were sleeping through 7 till 7...
I know I've refered to my children as 'them'.. but they aren't twins now aged 10 and 8 but it worked for both of them so for me it was more than 'luck'

it sounds like your doing a good job.. enjoy him.. they don't stay babies for long

Have read Rachel Wadilov. Is 4 hourly feeding but not strict like someting we won't mention! She does advocate letting them cry it out but only if well fed, well burped andclearly over tired. Started on that routine and found it helpful. Only prob for me was dd was too hungry in evening when was BF so didn't have enough milk to satisfy her so DH ended up walking the streets with her yellinbg. Didn't know she was hungry as she'd fed for ages but now is on bottles and takes 9oz at 5/6 rather than 4/5 rest of day! Found it hard to crack the 7pm to bed thing but once she was fed and satisfied (with expressed milk on top of her feed) we've had evenings to ourselves ever since. I think it depends on your baby but even if you end up feeding at different times I think the 7pm bedtime is well worth persevering with. Our dd has been in routine from start and now awake most of day and asleep at night. It halped me to plan my day and broke it up into managable chunks which I needed. Bu then I'm a creture of habit so routine worked for me too. Think it depends on what suits you and baby. (sorry if I've repeated stuff other people have said, not read all the posts)

alibobble...and the sad thing here is, that you following that 4 hourly feeding routine is probably what made your milsdupply diminish, and that is why people like that should not write books about somethng they seemingly don't know all that much about, sigh!
Not havig a go at you, you only tried to do what is best...just saying, as I find it so so sad!

I tried getting weasel into a routine at 2 weeks (the One We Cannot Speak Of) and it was a disaster and contributed to the bf problems I already had. I then was given a book called Baby Secrets which is similar to the Tracy Hogg/Rachel Waddilove approach, so not nearly as scheduled & I picked up some good tips about settling babies (never left him to cry though). I think there is a massive difference between a routine - so, for example, you bath baby at a similar time every night, offer a feed, play nighttime music etc, - and a schedule which tells you how often to feed and when to put the baby down to sleep.

I know you're probably craving some predictability but honestly, your ds will find its own pattern and you will learn it, and he will sleep through the night eventually whether you have followed one of these books or not. x

its own pattern? I mean his

Loobins - I was the same as you when DS was 2 weeks old. For a few days, I got really stressed as I tried to get him in the routine that we can't mention and got upset when he wouldn't sleep when he was 'supposed' to or when he fell asleep when it wasn't 'time'. After about 3 days, we realised that it was making us more stressed and we weren't achieving anything so we stopped and let him feed when he wanted, sleep when he wanted etc. and I can honestly say both me and DH enjoyed it much more this way.

He is 11 weeks old now and still not in a routine but his naps and feeding are becoming a bit more regular now and I am just beginning to recognise his 'tired' cries and putting him to sleep.

All advice I have seen/heard is that routines don't work until at least 3 months old so RELAX and enjoy the time you have - give him a cuddle when you want, let him sleep when and where he wants and ENJOY

'cry more than him'... I did too. That's normal too, for a bit.

I did not follow any routine as I am not that tipe of person anyway. I waited and learnt from her as well. It does fall into places.
and sometimes as well, especially in the first weeks, if you obsess with other people routine/advises etc you fail to pick up what your child's trying to communicate. but if you find one that works for you, great!

at 4 weeks I wouldn't even attempt a routine. That first 6 weeks is usually the hardest, after that they get more reasonable!

Hi everyone,

It's taken me so long to reply to these that you're probably not listening to me any more (and I thought I'd have tons of time on my hands with a newborn!) but just in case, I wanted to say a big thank you! You all said pretty much what I knew in my heart anyway, but god, doesn't it help to hear other people telling you you're doing okay?!

Just to fill you in, the little one's now six weeks and I did ditch RW, although I still follow the principles. Someone here hit the nail on the head when they said they shouldn't be awake for more than two hours at a time - and we found that out the hard way!! In short, I've kept the bedtime routine because it works really well for us, and he feeds every three hours or so (I never did manage to get him onto four hour feeds!!), and I put him down to sleep when he's been awake for about an hour and a half, but I don't stress out about the times any more. I adapt it to suit him, so he wakes up when he wants to and the feeds follow on from that. So far, it seems to be working.

Fingers crossed!!

Thanks again though - and I hope this helps someone else in the same boat! x

Throw the book out of the window and go with the flow. Trust your instincts and I agree with flamesparrow, the routine comes later. My dd is 13 weeks now and it is much easier to spot when she needs a nap etc now and she has settled into her own routine. Before this, varied everyday. Trying to force her into a book inspired routine just made me miserable .